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 Post subject: Re: Two very different types of kiters.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:59 am 
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alright, I'm sorry I came off so offensively in my first post but your all missing the point.

Yes it is great when people help each other but calling people out and saying they are a bad person for not is wrong. Being on the water does not mean we are required to be lifeguards.

If that is your logic then you are all bad people for not picking up hitch hikers, donating to the poor or adopting a starving African orphan when I'm sure you have the ability to. so spare me your narrow minded views of righteousness and stop thinking that we were put on this earth to serve you. you guys are just as selfish as the people your calling out.


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 Post subject: Re: Two very different types of kiters.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:49 am 
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I hear what you are saying and I agree, we don't have to be lifeguards, takes a special skill set after all. Some kiters don't have sufficient skill, control or strength to act in that regard. Not talking about panicked kiters either btw, which present special demands beyond all that. Lots of us do have the skills for a normal assist or rescue however and may do so on a regular basis.

The point is that any of us can go for help however regardless of kiting ability. I also believe we have an obligation to do just that. Been on the water for many decades, made lots of dumb mistakes, dropped myself in it, even needed bailing out at times. Then I've helped others numerous times too, why, because they needed it and I was able to help. Not calling anyone out on this, just saying it as I believe it is or at least should be.

Ours is still a young sport, with ways of getting into and out of trouble still coming to light. I firmly believe that all kiters have an obligation to at least be aware of other riders and render help to the degree they are able. This may simply be limited to telling other kiters about the problem who take action or contacting lifeguards, etc.. Taking reasonable steps to assure help is rendered. All of us at one time or another have needed help or might need assistance someday. For that reason alone we should try to help. Beyond that, we used to have a comradeship among kiters, we were different, launching a new sport. We knew and could see things others without the background might not see or know to act upon. I don't believe that has changed all that much yet either.

It comes down to personal values and choice to a degree. Still, it seems most agree, it is only right to help as you are able when others need it.


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 Post subject: Re: Two very different types of kiters.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:13 am 
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flyingweasel wrote:
E^Ri wrote:
You guys have no right to call out others for not helping you. you are responsible for yourself, if you can't take care of yourself ride with a buddy (i think we learned the buddy system in like 1st grade) or stay the fuck out of the water. Obviously you were able to swim in fine so the only reason you're bitching is because others would not inconvenience themselves to convenience you. You gotta pay your dues to play, if you don't want to swim in hire a fucking lifeguard you lazy shit.


Correct.


What a pair of self-centered heartless bastards.


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 Post subject: Re: Two very different types of kiters.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:03 pm 
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I think much of the conflict in this thread is due to miscomunication. The pro helpers believe this was a life and death situation. The others, including myself, believe this is a guy who would rather be draged to shore, than to swim. I help out kiters all the time, not because it is my duty, but to be nice. Thats my choice. You can't demand people to be nice to you. It's like damanding someone to buy you a beer.

If there is a question of life and deah however, you are obligated to help in one way or another.


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 Post subject: Re: Two very different types of kiters.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:04 pm 
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"... hire a life gaurd" ?

So if you're playing tennis with our two nice friends there and you twist your ankle, you can expect them to say "Should've brought crutches see ya I'm off home" :o


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 Post subject: Re: Two very different types of kiters.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:33 pm 
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The idea that you are obligated by law to help someone if in trouble is incorrect as the first rule in first aid, the very first thing you do when you notice a situation, the first letter in DR. ABC
Danger - asses the situation. Are you risking yourself by helping this person. a call only YOU can answer, no-one else.
Although we are not obligated by law to help someone in trouble we should feel obligated to, either out of a moral foundation or even a slef centred "if that was me i would want someone to come get me"
i know if i was one of those kiters, and fred had died after i had refused to help, although it wouldn't be my fault i would feel somewhat resonsible. I can tell you from experience that seeing someone die that you have tried to rescue is not a nice thing, blaming yourself is not right but everyone does it, everyone thinks "what if i got there a couple seconds earlier", "what if i had been a little calmer" etc.
I know of people who are recieveing counciling because of these type of situations. Could you imaging seeing Fred's wife, 3 kids and puppy down the beach weeks later knowing you could have prevented a death, you would have to live with that fact. It may sound self centered but thats one of the reasons i rescue people, i don't want to live with that feeling.


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 Post subject: Re: Two very different types of kiters.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:48 pm 
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As an American I agree 100% with you BUT this is an international board so laws and culture differ vastly.

Also as an American I know that if you were to help and if ANYTHING were to go bad you are now open to a lawsuit.
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=6498405&page=1


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 Post subject: Re: Two very different types of kiters.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:56 pm 
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not a team sport.....your kite, your bar, your board, your velcro-filled wetsuit............learn how to swim, and stop bitching.


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 Post subject: Re: Two very different types of kiters.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:20 pm 
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We've been talking about a case, I think, where it is clear the kiter needs help and actually wants it. Been offered help many times during self rescue and usually politely refuse the offer of assistance. Then again, I'm usually not in hypothermic water, large swells, offshore wind, with kelp snags all over the place, with a non-sailable kite either. To non-kiters we may look like we need help at times when in fact we're sorting things out on our own and are progressing back to shore at best possible speed. At times, some people who really need help don't realize it, at least not yet. It can come down to a judgment call by the responding kiter. If I see someone kite down for a while and not effectively making for shore, I usually swing by and ask if they need help. Usually they say no, so I just keep an eye on them while riding around to make sure they make it in. You know, staying aware of how they're doing. At other times they request help or may prompt it eventually.

Just got this months Kiteboarder Mag., http://kiteboardingmag.com/ , this morning and see an article by Paul Menta titled "Off To The Rescue. " It deals with assessing a potential rescue and steps on how to carry it out by one approach. Good stuff, worth a read. Again, not all kiters are up to this but if they know a kiter needs help and wants it, it is easy enough to pass word along.

Put something together for lifeguards and kiters a while back on rescues. What to look for, ideas about when to monitor and when to launch a rescue. I think it is worth a look as well:

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=2300710&p=576935

You can download a pdf copy with photos at the link at the bottom.


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 Post subject: Re: Two very different types of kiters.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:06 pm 
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Kamikuza wrote:
"... hire a life gaurd" ?

So if you're playing tennis with our two nice friends there and you twist your ankle, you can expect them to say "Should've brought crutches see ya I'm off home" :o


LOL, is this the first tennis analogy on the forum???

You are definately in, nay lead, the stupid category.

Game, set and match...Weasel!!!

anyone for strawbs and cream?

:rollgrin: :rollgrin: :rollgrin:


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