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Open cell ram airs on water- anyone tried lately?

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dansheridan
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Open cell ram airs on water- anyone tried lately?

Postby dansheridan » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:19 pm

Hi Guys,
Back in the day when I started I used some open cell foils and ARCs and free air wipika tubes.
I got caught out in the water with every type of kite out there.
When the wind switched offshore on me with the tube kite i found it the most difficult to gather up the lines and swim in inflated against the strong offshore wind.
I have tried deflating them down to a small pack but rolling them up in the water slightly inflated is a pain.
then take the arc, it was second, i found it mediumly difficult to deflate the kite in the water and roll it up and swim in with my harness around the kite and me on my board.
next my flysurfer warrior. it was a lower medium pain in the butt to gather up.
Next, the open cell foil. I found it the easiest to roll up in the water as there is no deflation needed.
then i put my harness around it easily, lay on my board and paddle in really easy because the open cell foil lays on the water ( wet and deflated but i just lays on top )
now if you have an onshore wind the self rescue with a tube is easy ( just grab the tips and go in )
we mostly get onshore to side- on winds where i kite in canada and florida in general
I can easily roll the open cell kite up and float in if I drop it where i kite.
and if you are fast you can reverse launch the open cell and get it into the air before it fills up with water
I don't drop my kite much, but you never know.
if the self rescue gets too hard I ditch the kite and swim in on my board anyway
i survive to go back to work and by another kite.
remember the pioneers used blades and in the surf too ( peter trow ripped on em )
What my question is, has anyone rode the new manta or frenzies on the water.
do they pull steady for kitesurfing without jumpin around.
i used new tubes and flysurfers but I want to try open cell for some reason I have no idea, but i want to try it. the simplicity of them is what i love.
Maybe I am nuts but I really believe it is not that big of a deal and self rescue for me in the past was easier on open cell foils but that was a lifetime ago and I just want some input from people who have tried the new ozone foils on water.

Love Dan

I bet this post will blow pump me up's head off

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Re: Open cell ram airs on water- anyone tried lately?

Postby DenisLaMenace » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:41 pm

I remember a member of PowerKiteForum.com (spelepower) that he still flies Open Cell kites like a Flexifoil blade on water and with HANDLES !!!

Not a recent depower Ozone kite but ...

see thread and attachment

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthrea ... 1#pid60978
Attachments
Saipanksurf.jpg
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Afro
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Re: Open cell ram airs on water- anyone tried lately?

Postby Afro » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:05 pm

here is a pic of a UK ozone rider using an access on the water...

clearly they work, but i wouldnt want to drop one in the water.

Image

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Sebastian Bubmann
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Re: Open cell ram airs on water- anyone tried lately?

Postby Sebastian Bubmann » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:36 pm

I tried the Flysurfer Outlaw on the water a year ago:
http://www.sebastianbubmann.com/2008/11 ... g-bavaria/

Dropped it as well and managed to relaunch it. But I wouldn't want to use one on the water.
Dropping it is no fun at all and I am fine with packing up my closed cell kites in case the wind drops out.

Sebastian

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Re: Open cell ram airs on water- anyone tried lately?

Postby alden » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:57 am

I've tried an 08 11m FYX Frenzy in light wind with a LW TT. It did not work at all. The kite flew and turned well enough but just seemed to have the wrong kind of power buildup in the powerdive for waterstart then planing. Perhaps the wind was just too light. I have a 20m LF M80 C kite that I use in 9-15mph and one day out of curiosity I tried the Frenzy instead. It didn't work.

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Re: Open cell ram airs on water- anyone tried lately?

Postby FredBGG » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:08 am

Open cell ram airs on water- anyone tried lately?

Isn't that kind of like riding with a back pack full of rocks to improve your high end?

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Re: Open cell ram airs on water- anyone tried lately?

Postby loco4viento » Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:26 am

I like Dan's question. I remember Dan's kite snowboarding stoke from ten years ago by the way...hi Dan (you probably don't remember me).

I haven't flown my Flexifoil Blades on the water in a while but I hope to again soon. I used my B3 10.5 as my ultimate light wind kite until I finally picked up an SA2-19. I could squeak upwind in 8 +/- 1 kt but the SA19 is significantly better.

Obviously, a Flexifoil Blade in the water has an extremely low relaunch rate. I swam in a couple times every year out of 60-90 days on the water. If a Blade user were dumb enough to ride out farther than he were able to safely swim in (with no PFD) the kite sure won't help the rider get back in. These are issues of inconvenience and not safety (unless the rider has really lousy judgment).

If the wind picks up like crazy, there is no safer kite to drop in the water. No worrying that the kite will blow somewhere and hurt someone or get torn up. Get it wet and it will stay down.

In a really horrible launching and landing place, the Blades pop up really easily and you can land them anywhere. At the water's edge, in the back of a truck, on the grill of a car, on a porch, in a bush, on a tree, on some grass, in front of a trash can or volleyball pole, or even your child standing on the beach. I've done them all. They don't get destroyed easily and they don't hurt the things (or persons) on which they land.

In offshore winds I always enjoyed my Blades. No leash. Jump and spin all you want. If for some reason you were unable to stay upwind just put it in the water, roll it up (from the trailing edge only) and wrap it in your shirt or harness and swim in. It will never pull you out to sea and won't blow away, even if your lines break. An open cell foil and a "disposable" plywood board were my typical preferences for strong gusty offshore days. I never lost a board and never had to dump the kite to get back in, but it gave me peace of mind to know I could go out in those conditions and not worry about losing expensive equipment.

There is no kite faster and easier to launch and land than an open cell foil (especially a 2 line although I prefer depowering 4 line systems unless I am in the mood for more of a challenge).

In the early days, the guys who pulled out a Blade 4.9 or 3.3, or an F-One ATK 6.5 were guys with a serious go-for-it spirit. Seemed like every good rider had a 4.9 hiding in their trunk or under the seat of their car.

I used my own mods, especially the loco-blade depower mod which I posted on the foilzone and maybe on kiteforum as well. I had awesome depower and a really user friendly kite with a bit of decrement in low end raw power.

I will be using my Blades on the water again as they are really fun and offer something unique.

From my standpoint, flying an open celled kite requires the a commitment to keep your kite in the air. Paragliders, hang gliders and airplanes are flown with the same discipline. I don't drive my car with a willingness to crash it a few times an hour and I don't ride my bike that way either. If a person is willing to COMMIT to keeping the kite in the air and is willing to face the no relaunch consequence (I probably had a couple swims a year) a nonrelaunchable open celled foil offers a unique kind of safety, convenience and satisfaction. It is a little bit like using a wakeskate over a wakeboard with boot bindings. One of them takes more discipline and is less forgiving of mistakes but for a small number of people is really satisfying and fun in its simplicity and challenge.

If it weren't for my Flysurfers I would very happily do almost all my kiting on my locoblade modded 10.5 and 6.6. I would have a few swims every year and would spend zero to 10 minutes a year on repairs. I am completely willing to put up with the drawbacks in exchange for the advantages. I prefer my Flysurfers for a number of reasons but I will always love the nonrelaunchable foils.

There are a lot of ways to enjoy being pulled by the wind over the water. Each has its own unique advantages and disadvantages. I enjoy this variety while others do not. Open cell foils with their obvious disadvantages have many (not so obvious) advantages in convenience, durability, reliability, versatility, personal/public safety and minimal size & weight to make travel really easy. In general, I enjoy whatever am fortunate enough to experience.

John

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Re: Open cell ram airs on water- anyone tried lately?

Postby Ittiandro » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:05 am

Hi Dan

I am a windsurfer and I am considering snowkiting in winter and kiteboarding in the summer, instead of windsurfing.
In order to cut down the costs, I was thinking of kiting in the summer, at least initially, on my current Windsup board ( a Bic Ace 11.6). I read it is feasible and fun, too.There are a lot of interesting videos, too, on Youtube.

The point I want to make is that you say you used open cell foils. I'd love them, because they are cheaper than the inflatable kites, but I also read that open cells foils are not recommended for use on the water, because they fill up with water and become very hard to relaunch , because of the weight.

I wonder why such diverging opinions, unless people overestimate the amount of water getting into the open cells. It may be relatively small, not enough to significantly add to the weight.
For one thing, it is not that hard to uphaul a water filled 9 m2 windsurfing sail . There shouldn't be more water in the kite cells. Besides, it should easily drain, right away , once the wind starts lifting the kite. From your experience, is it really that hard to relaunch an open cell from the water?

I wonder if you can comment on this

Thanks

Ittiandro

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Re: Open cell ram airs on water- anyone tried lately?

Postby KiteDR » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:31 pm

Ittiandro wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:05 am
For one thing, it is not that hard to uphaul a water filled 9 m2 windsurfing sail . There shouldn't be more water in the kite cells. Besides, it should easily drain, right away , once the wind starts lifting the kite. From your experience, is it really that hard to relaunch an open cell from the water?
Ittiandro - kudos for bringing back an old post from 2010. I’m amazed.

But yes, it is really that hard - unless you’re quick and able to relaunch before things fill up and/or collapse - you’re swimming. When uphauling, you pull the sail up and the water can run off. When relaunching, you’re relying on the wind to fill the kite and lift from the water.

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Re: Open cell ram airs on water- anyone tried lately?

Postby windrider1 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:37 pm

First of all offshore winds is a not a good idea as most people know already. so just don't do it unless u have help avaialable. second there is no point going out with open cell foils in water, been there done tht. Even though an open cell foil kite will stay up in 4 knots if u drop it u probally have 10% chance of relaunch. However I fly closed foils exclusively on the water and have never had a problem on the water to rlaunch or get to shore . they will stay up in 4 or 5 knts which u wont be kiting in anywas and if you crash it will relaunch in very low winds easily. The newer foil kites are a lot better than the ones from 10 years ago especially the performance race kites. If you drop the kite and cant relaunch let say a busted line or u released the safety then I usually dont bother to pack up the kite as I tested and realised it will happily float on the water downwind towards the shore as I swam in behind it . So wrap the lines about half way and let it float to shore. this is considering its not a beach with a lot of waves and ure within reasonable distance from shore -ex less than 20 min .I also use my kites dually for water and land activities and like the light weight and ease of use that comes with foil kites.


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