LF Envy or Havoc

[Pipes]

Can anyone compare the 2010 12m Havoc to the 12 Envy.I have flown the 12m Envy and found it a bit slow and very grunty.More of a wake style kite maybe?
Not that it was'nt a good kite,just wondering if the havoc would be better for me.Can't get the chance to fly one.
I'm mostly into surf and freestyle riding.

[insener]

Heh, exactly my feeling of 12 Envy. Tryed them both in 12m2 size. Havoc was my "wow" kite:)
If you don't like grunt and speed of 12 Envy, 12 Havoc is your kite, it's amazing! Also prefer kites that fly fast forward in a window and don't pull like truck and it's faster. I tested both kites in high and light wind - for me Havoc had better range and much confortable to ride over Envy, I don't know how LF guys could do that, but it flyes depowered in high wind same as powered in light and Havoc like speed and boost;)

[jedi1]

insener have you ridden some similar kites to the havoc like rpm or new nemesis ? I wonder how the pulley on the wingtip affects responsivenes of lf kites. Every company seems to have resigned from this kind of design, but LF keeps it. LF bridles is a bit different from older sle constructions, as it has a pulley only on the wingtip, maybe that's the way to go to keep kite responsiveness.

[insener]

yep, 12m2 2009 RPM and 14m2 2009 Nemesis HP. I liked 14 Nemesis more than RPM dispite bigger size (14 size usualy not comparable to 12), better bar feeling. Also tryed 14 RPM, but it was a truck for my weight (78kg+-). SS bar itselt is better than Best for my taste.

cannot comment on location of the pulleys, for me the only thing may sense: how it flyes and feels and 2010 Havoc is perfect;)

[jrfiol]

My friend Ryan who is the best kiteboarder I know, prefers my Havoc 12 2009 to my RPM 10. I think he is nuts!, but he really likes the Havoc.

This past Sunday, the Real Kiteboarding team visited my home spot in La Parguera Puerto Rico. They really put on a show! They were all flying Havocs. Well, not all of them, but a few of them.

[hawnsolos]

anyone care to compare the 2010 LF bar, havoc and envy to naish's 2010 bar, helix and cult?

[tonyh]

Heh, exactly my feeling of 12 Envy. Tryed them both in 12m2 size. Havoc was my "wow" kite:)
If you don't like grunt and speed of 12 Envy, 12 Havoc is your kite, it's amazing! Also prefer kites that fly fast forward in a window and don't pull like truck and it's faster. I tested both kites in high and light wind - for me Havoc had better range and much confortable to ride over Envy, I don't know how LF guys could do that, but it flyes depowered in high wind same as powered in light and Havoc like speed and boost;)

I second all of that!
Was out on 10m Havoc recently, while mate was out on 10m Envy in 18-20kts, swapped over to see difference and couldn't wait to get my Havoc back, the Envy had heavier bar pressure, turned slower and seemed to sit a little further back in the window, certainly more boost from the Havoc, yeah, certainly has the "wow" factor for me as well.

[kitesurfrabbi]

tried envy in 8, 10 and 12 and havoc 10 and 12

for me the lowend is pretty much the same.
envy more park and ride. havoc relies more on apparent wind.
the highend is better on the havoc for sure but the usable windrange is still great on both.

bar pressure is higher on the envy but so is the feedback.

unhooked preformance is great on both.

its a matter of taste what you prefer:
fast with light barpressure... havoc
park and ride ... envy

i personally prefer the envy, but thats me.

[Pipes]

Decided on the 2010 Havoc ,probably better for me personally.
What 's the bottom end on the 10m like?
Thinking 10m or 12m? I'm 80 kgs ,experienced rider

[MissionMan]

Had a run on the Havoc and was pretty impressed. The 12m didn't have as much grunt as my 13m Rev2 but it turned a whole load faster. Couldn't comment on the hangtime as it wasn't very powered up, but overall, the package was pretty impressive. I think LF have come out with a winner this year with their havoc.