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 Post subject: Re: Is there a surfboard that can match a Door in lightwind?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:57 pm 
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markchatwin wrote:
There seems to be a concensus. Surfboards just can't match a Door's low end. It's fast becoming clear that I should get a surfboard for surfboard's sake. Looks like the quiver needs a raceboard or a Door to handle the super light stuff.

Is there a raceboard that is less "racy" and more "turny" or a little "nose up" to reduce spray?


Yup, but I only made one.

I called it the yellow bullet.

Mono concave. A wee bit deeper at the entry and progressively less at the tail.

Construction Glass, ABS, Glass, Corecell, Glass and carbon.

A bezzilion strap inserts, but ride it strapless.

The magic thing on this board is that it has ultra flexible corners on the tail that make the fins increase the turning speed by auto steering the board. This feature also makes the board track automatically while cutting through chop at an angle.
It also makes the board turn really fast for its shape.

The race boards I have tried are not very comfortable and have a very splatty ride.

The Yellow bullet on the other hand has a very smooth ride. However it has to be ridden in a pretty specific way. Really works best strapless. Weight far forward for a flat fast board that just goes straight by itself. Weight far back and the flexible tips make the board turn fast.

The board is fun and goes over kelp like nothing else. The flexible tips let the fins flex up over the kelp.

Attachment:
Yellow-Bullet-Rails.jpg
Yellow-Bullet-Rails.jpg [ 25.76 KIB | Viewed 710 times ]

Close up of the tail tips.


Attachment:
Finnished-board.jpg
Finnished-board.jpg [ 12.27 KIB | Viewed 710 times ]

Finnished board.

Here is a thread on the board:

http://www.foilzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopi ... 5&start=30


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a surfboard that can match a Door in lightwind?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:51 pm 
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ive got a monster door, jimmy 6'8 fish, 6'2 quad, and had a myply plywood 150x50 w/out fins.

monster door and myply are better. mdoor has flex tips- they work -super comfy ride to me in the chop - even up to a foot or 2 - just bend ur knees and absorb. ply board just ride slower so u dont crack it- cant really jump it. fish are fun- big area to walk around.

i prefer mdoor- esp since have sandbar areas/ w/ a few inches of flatwater - super fun to play in those. ive had the mdoor in 5-8ft surf- sure not best suited- but u can make it work - just put 99% of ur weight on the back footstrap.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a surfboard that can match a Door in lightwind?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:06 pm 
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This is a quite interesting thread :thumb:

Here we have had the big door as the super lightwind board earlier.

Has almost dissapeared nowadays, except for beginners who like the "TT" principle :-?

Raceboards are evolving huge, and if you just mount standard not too big fins, it gives a very easy ride.
Also, many riders have changed to directionals regarding waveboards, so it is more natural now.
And kitesurfers are getting better, meaning, the jibe (and tack) is a nice challenge to play around with (or easy to handle for many nowadays)

NOT as soft as a "round" board, no - but you get a very very fun ride, meaning you can handle chop easy, and best of all - you can now play around, going upwind and race downwind (no more riding back and fourth only), and you can JUMP HIGH in almost no wind :D

Kelp and/or extremely low water could be challenged by mounting smaller wavefins instead - as the board outline would still do the trick regarding early planing and speed, you would just go at a lower angle upwind.

Somehow the door seems a bit like a boring antique (sorry if I hurt anyone by saying this - I know I am also an antique with my age :roll: ), thus not that popular anymore like it used to.

But the door is VERY easy to ride of course :naughty: (except for some chop issues, but thats it)

-----------------------

Regarding the original question about surfboards, the answer is yes, you CAN make a big wide flat fish board, that would be able to match a Door in light wind planing.

But I am sure the fun factor is almost non-existent now :o
(at least for me, it degraded very fast - the fun that is...)

With a door you can make jump transitions for example, and other stuff.
With a raceboard you can jump high, and "get around".
With a big strapless fish you can do nothing of this, and you are stuck riding with very low speed and can only do slow jibes and tacks trying to keep the fun factor alive 8)

So these boards got very boring very fast :wink:

The worst of it all, regarding a big fish, is that if the wind picks up even for short moments, you are just stuck with EXACTLY the same (low) speed, tug tug tug :(
With the door or the raceboard, it REALLY is a blast when you get a bit more wind, as you just accelerate and can now go really fast (really fun) and upwind and jump MUCH higher suddenly - YEAH :thumb:

If you should have a more fun "almost" light wind tool, a strapped wide waveboard with a flat rocker, and not too long, would be the way to go :P
As the apparent wind you get strapped (especially in chop), when planing, is much more fun and way better for power than huge strapless surfboards IMO.
But Hey - a strapped wide waveboard with a flat rocker ? That is in fact a raceboard with small fins :thumb:

Have been through all of the types myself (and many others like Malibu boards etc), in searh for the best light wind weapon, giving me the most fun.

Cant say for others what they prefer, would just share my experiences.

:D Peter Frank

PS: Strapless is awesome in "normal" conditions with waves - I love it, but thats another issue... Just not good for ultimate light wind.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a surfboard that can match a Door in lightwind?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:50 pm 
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Droffats ,

I seen you posted that you have been riding the skillit. Can you comment a little bit on that board in gerernal ? I know its marketed for lightwind or when the wind picks up, I havnt decided weather to try mounting the straps and wondering what your thoughts are for riding that board with straps or strapless, also any riding tips for the skillit ? I just picked one up so looking to gain some knowledge from you experience.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a surfboard that can match a Door in lightwind?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:34 am 
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Location: PASA Level III Instructor FL- OBX - MI - the world
As someone else said there is not any single board that will do everything well. It seems like this question has evolved from a someone's search for a lightwind board that "does it all"...it will probably always remain an unattainable dream.

Anyway, while I think "Doors" are still very good in light wind and for upwind performance, I have ridden a few twintips that seem to do just as well. Rider weight and sea state will have an influence on this. Recently I rode a 2009 Spleene Funtech 36Rip back to back with 54Door and 64 Door in very light wind - 9-11 kts - several riders with 19m FS SA's having trouble staying upwind. The 36Rip was faster through the water than the Doors, and this enabled the kite to generate better apparent wind. Surprisingly I was flying an 11m Core Riot XR, I weigh 155 lbs.

When someone asks me about which light wind board they should get the answer 3-4 years ago was hands down... a 41 Session, 54 Door, or 64 Door, depending on rider weight. I actually have a 39 Session (not made anymore), which is much narrower than the 41 Session, but it is MUCH faster and goes upwind better than a 54 Door. I'm not trying to pimp Spleene, but they do make good lightwind boards and I've ridden a lot of their boards from 128x38 to 138x44 Rips, 2 different Zones, and all the Sessions and Doors.

Today the question about which board to get has a lot more answers and possibilities - lots of twintips with wider shapes work really well, therefore it is now a questions that requires more "reflection" on what the rider really wants, how often he will ride, sea conditions, kites owned, style of riding, etc.

The Doors are still hard to beat for downright ease of use, but some other shapes like a Rip36, 37, 39 etc. are pretty easy to ride and more fun in a wider variety of conditions. So today my recommendations is more often for a larger Rip shape, than for the Door shape - mostly because the former is much more versatile and MUCH more fun and almost as efficient.

As for Surfboards/directionals - I think that a skilled rider can ride a directional in just as light of wind if he has the right board and fin setup. If you are a diehard directional rider (or want to be) you can find a board and hone your skills in this department as well...but that "lightwind" surfboard may not be the best shape for most days you want a "surf" design. I'm leaving raceboards out of the discussion completely because they represent such a specialized and extreme end of the spectrum, and man, you have to be careful with those monster fins. To me a raceboard seems like more hassle than it's worth unless you are really into racing on a regular basis.


Last edited by robertovillate on Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there a surfboard that can match a Door in lightwind?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:20 am 
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I agree with the general consensus that: 1) A typical surfboard with a waveriding rocker and fin setup can NOT match a door. 2) A directional raceboard with flat rocker and big fins CAN match (or beat) a door.

...

I'll add my own thoughts on the pros and cons of the three kinds of lightwind boards I have ridden; an extra-long twintip, a door, and most recently a quad fin freeride raceboard.

*Extra long twintip- You don't see many twintips over 160 cm anymore, but I have a 179 x 46 cm Litewave Freeride that I LOVE. It gets going almost as early as a door, but is a much smoother ride that doesn't splash me in the face. Carves nice, too.


*Door- The one I have ridden the most is my buddy's 153 cm Litewave Wing. It needs about 1 knot less wind to go upwind than my 179 cm Freeride, but that 1 knot advantage can sometimes be a session saver. It's fast, especially in smooth water, and it can do pops, jumps and slide transitions like any twintip. It's just tiring and uncomfortable to ride in choppy water, and there's the splashing / crashing issue of catching chop with the front.

*Freeride raceboard- Just this week I picked up a custom "freeride raceboard" which has about the same outline as a course racing board, but with some more carve-friendly rails and shorter, more swept-back fins. I've only had one good session on it so far, but my initial impression is that it has a slight planing advantage, and a definitely speed and upwind advantage over the 153 wing. And it doesn't splash me in the face. It also seems like significantly less strain on my legs than the door. Turning is harder because you have to jibe, but the jibing isn't as hard as I thought it might be. It jumps fine, but controlling it in the air and landing it is something I'm still working on.


Sorry for the essay.
-J


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a surfboard that can match a Door in lightwind?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:43 am 
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Skimboard is a great, fun alternative to the Door.. my Nobile skimboard has about the low end of the smaller Door..


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a surfboard that can match a Door in lightwind?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:57 am 
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i used to have a litewave 179x46

wish i never go rid of it- single concave and super smooth- long and narrow at tips- like a giant ocean rodeo mako


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a surfboard that can match a Door in lightwind?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:10 am 
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Very interesting thread, from a beginner perspective ...
Being in Japan, I don't have the access to the great used deals I see going on the forums but I did score myself a great deal on a pair of Spleenes - 2007 Door 154 and a Rip Max 138. Hoping this'll help get my big fat arse out of the water and going upwind ... although I think I want a freeride race board too :D


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a surfboard that can match a Door in lightwind?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:39 am 
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sounds like we need the manufacturers to make some boards in between a full blown race board and a fast short fish. so span the range from a slightly detuned raceboard (e.g. sector) that is very efficient but doesn't really have the looseness/bottom turning ability for waves to wide/fast wave boards (choptop LW) that can make a pretty good bottom turn, but trades off some light wind efficiency.

interesting that the two board that happened to come to mind in these categories were both airush..and i'm not even a pimp for them!

I just ordered a short fast fish a few weeks ago so hope I went for the right choice, but being able to save a good wave session when the wind drops (without having to rig a new kite) is important to me so don't think the race board will do that

-Peter T


Peter_Frank wrote:
This is a quite interesting thread :thumb:

Raceboards are evolving huge, and if you just mount standard not too big fins, it gives a very easy ride.

If you should have a more fun "almost" light wind tool, a strapped wide waveboard with a flat rocker, and not too long, would be the way to go :P
As the apparent wind you get strapped (especially in chop), when planing, is much more fun and way better for power than huge strapless surfboards IMO.
But Hey - a strapped wide waveboard with a flat rocker ? That is in fact a raceboard with small fins :thumb:

.


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