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 Post subject: Jumping - C kite vs SLE/Bow
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:06 pm 
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Thinking of flying some older "C' kites. How different is the technique to jump (oldschool not wake) on a "C" kite vs today's BOW? Does pulling in on the bar have any effect on older "C" kites? Do you have to send it from deeper in the window or redirect more quickly...Is it better to send it past 12?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping - C kite vs SLE/Bow
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:12 pm 
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Writing an analysis of a nasty lofting involving three kiters in 2005 right now. Two were badly injured with one likely paralyzed for the rest of his life when a squall line below over. All were on traditional C kites. If you need to ask, best advice is to stay with newer BOW or high depower kites. Lots of us flew traditional C kites back in the day and even more primitive systems before that. Most of us weren't badly injured, still plenty were however. As I recall, jumping was even easier, dealing with excessive wind was a lot harder to infeasible past a point. Lots of unreliable QR in the earlier days too. Go with a new high depower C kite if you are curious, best to leave obsolete systems in the past.


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping - C kite vs SLE/Bow
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:09 pm 
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most of the newest c kites come with a shedload of depower from stock so there safe, for sure you get the biggest airs on oldschool kites in my opinion as i fly a lot of models and have c shapes myself. in my opinion its a lot better popping with the c's as you really have to lean into the harness and edge the board, it looks so much better and is more controlled rather than sticking you arse out and pulling in the bar all the way in to get lame airs. once in the air with 4 line c's the pull is constant and you have full control over where you are, i seem to have more crash landings with high depower kites as there not direct and dont give you confidence when your 40ft in the air. the pop techique comes from the harness and pressure built up by your board as the kites pull comes from the front lines or power lines as they were called a few yars back, its a better technique by far and teaches you good board control so you will be a more solid rider and develop good style- hardly anyone has good style on the hybrids in my opinion :nono:

the danger with the new ones is so low and only a few people died anyway it is well worth the risk, all the best riders fly c kites. and the ones that dont are paid not to for marketing purposes.

basically modern c's are a lot more managable than there older counterparts, so much safer aswell. but you get all the advantages of a c kite when it maters, 40ft up.

one more thing, there going to hate my opinion on this website- there are a lot or safety lords here, but the mai point im making is think of the massive yank you get to the apex of your jump thats the biggest rush in the sport rater than low hangliding bow kites :jump:


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping - C kite vs SLE/Bow
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:53 pm 
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Pretty impressive, still you jump quite a bit higher than 40 ft. though right? I started flying traditional C kites in 2000 after dealing with poorer performing 2 line LEI and foils for a couple of years before that. Probably owned a couple dozen or more C kites back in the day. Certain models had great attributes at the time and were memorable.

The problem has never really been with the type of kite, it has been with the rider and the choices he made. The same applies to the newest BOW kite, as kiters are still getting themselves taken out often in excessively strong winds. If you think they aren't, you're wrong. They are just going out, intentionally, in worse conditions than before. Back in the day, same thing, choosing to go out in excessively gusty or unstable conditions, bad locations, etc.. BTW, we're not talking about pro riders or old school experts, we're talking about a rider asking about jump technique? There's a difference.

The biggest hazard of kiting is and always has been poor choices.

BOW and high depower C kites may allow a bit more latitude in some poor choices (usually wx or distance related), than traditional C kites. That is why going with these newer kites is a prudent move, particularly for newer riders. Also, the QR sucked on quite a few of the traditional C kites over the years.


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping - C kite vs SLE/Bow
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:39 am 
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Its all going to depend on which kite you get, but generally i gave seen that hybrids and bows can boost a bit more. If you are really looking for a c-kite, then go for the ones from 2007 and newer, those would be worth buying, others just don't have a lot of depower and yeah you know...


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping - C kite vs SLE/Bow
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:19 am 
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LanBro wrote:
Thinking of flying some older "C' kites. How different is the technique to jump (oldschool not wake) on a "C" kite vs today's BOW? Does pulling in on the bar have any effect on older "C" kites? Do you have to send it from deeper in the window or redirect more quickly...Is it better to send it past 12?

Thanks


I found a difference between my 12m bow and 12m c-kite. The bow seemed easier, hardly had to fly it back, just pull in the bar and off I go. The c-kite I had to have better timing and had to throw it back a bit harder. I'm an intermediate level rider though and I don't go high in my jumps but I felt there was a definite difference. My bow was an 08 and my c was an 07.

I've read somewhere that, power wise, a bow kite delivers more than a c-kite. ie a 10m bow = 12m c-kite roughly. The bows are flatter than the c's which, I believe, is the major contributing factor in the power differential between the two styles of kites.

I would definitely go with an 07 or newer c-kite. My 07 c-kite seems to have plenty of depower for the conditions I ride. I sold the bow. I have an 06 12m c-kite I use in the winter and it's not as good as my 07 and my 06 was better than my 05 (toast) if you can believe that, but it's true. I bet an 08 would be even better than my 07, makes me cry almost :)


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping - C kite vs SLE/Bow
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:21 pm 
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Not everyone will hate on your opinion on here, Switch313 !

I'm totally with you. Love to jump on my 7m and even 9 m C as they don't give you a soft lift like riding an elevator and have you glide through the air on the way down. Don't like that at all.

When fully powered on those things (2006 models by the way) sending them ( to 11/1 ) and getting everything right it feels more like the lift is going to tear your body apart. At the apex you feel a point of total absence of gravity before you descend rapidly. Nearing touchdown you need to send the kite forward across 12 to slow that descend and land softly.

That's how and why I like to jump on small C-kites. And I'm not even discussing kiteloops yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping - C kite vs SLE/Bow
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:03 pm 
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I ride a mix of old and new style C kites, having learnt on C's then onto bows and back to C's.
There is more technique to jumping C kites, theres alot more timing and edging involved to get a decent jump. I find if I send it from low down (this is common with all kites - the lower the start postion the higher the jump :thumb: ) edge hard and send it back past 12 - then release my edge but at the same time send the kite straight up back towards 12 I get a decent amount of height on my jumps.
With a bow you dont need much technique to jump, just keep the kite high, edge and pull the bar in, I see that even the IKO now teach this method of jumping :roll:

But...........if you combine the 2, i.e. C style jumping technique with bow style kites you can really get some height 8) Bow kites do have a lot more lift and power than equivalent sized C kites but 80% of people lack the technique to get the best out of them. The biggest I've ever been is on my old 9M 2007 Waroo, man that thing boosted high.

Then the other thing is to combine all this together with a boost off a wave...............now that's the best way to jump :thumb:

The main difference is the sheeting, with bow kites you sheet in to get the boost, with C kites its down more to technique.


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping - C kite vs SLE/Bow
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:32 pm 
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JGTR wrote:
I ride a mix of old and new style C kites, having learnt on C's then onto bows and back to C's.
There is more technique to jumping C kites, theres alot more timing and edging involved to get a decent jump. I find if I send it from low down (this is common with all kites - the lower the start postion the higher the jump :thumb: ) edge hard and send it back past 12 - then release my edge but at the same time send the kite straight up back towards 12 I get a decent amount of height on my jumps.
With a bow you dont need much technique to jump, just keep the kite high, edge and pull the bar in, I see that even the IKO now teach this method of jumping :roll:

But...........if you combine the 2, i.e. C style jumping technique with bow style kites you can really get some height 8) Bow kites do have a lot more lift and power than equivalent sized C kites but 80% of people lack the technique to get the best out of them. The biggest I've ever been is on my old 9M 2007 Waroo, man that thing boosted high.

Then the other thing is to combine all this together with a boost off a wave...............now that's the best way to jump :thumb:

The main difference is the sheeting, with bow kites you sheet in to get the boost, with C kites its down more to technique.


Very true, and agree :thumb:


But I would rephrase it and say:

With bow kites you CAN sheet in to boost, without much technique.
With C kites you need technique to boost.

But the thing is, that you CAN also boost without much sheeting (but sending it) with a bow kite :D
And when skilled, and using the aggressive good sending technique to boost, and add a little sheeting on top of that - you will get insane jumps, both max height and with amazing hangtime also 8)

Exactly like you wrote - combining the two methods !


C will give you more "kick in the butt" going up, and falling more like a rock.
Bow will give you more hangtime, and easier for less skilled to get high consistently.

The max height will be the same for both types :thumb:

Kindly, Peter Frank


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping - C kite vs SLE/Bow
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:20 pm 
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LanBro wrote:
Thinking of flying some older "C' kites. How different is the technique to jump (oldschool not wake) on a "C" kite vs today's BOW? Does pulling in on the bar have any effect on older "C" kites? Do you have to send it from deeper in the window or redirect more quickly...Is it better to send it past 12?

Thanks


I have flown C kites from slingshot, best, cabrinha, north, and naish, and I can tell you this: If you want an old school kite that boosts to the moon, you need to find an old North Rhino 2 (2003 I think...) I have never ridden a kite that comes close to the jumping ability of this kite. Oh, and make sure you are a fast swimmer, or attach a 5th line, or you won't be able to put it on it's back to relaunch in high winds. That is one thing the "bow generation" doesn't realize when riding these old school kites--no pulling a backline and watching your kite relaunch on it's own!


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