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The World's Fastest Kite. Period

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RAL INN
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Re: The World's Fastest Kite. Period

Postby RAL INN » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:13 am

I believe the only real issue that crosses all arguments over these speed events, is the nature of the venue.
There are plenty of sailing devises that would love to have a straight flat water run 150 Degrees off the wind planted right in the way of a historically high, mono directional , wind.

As with the Canal in France, there is a view that these artificial venues lack cred.

personally I believe that to claim a World sailing speed record that is open to any and all classes of sailing devices, you have to provide a level playing field.

Imagine a base jumper claiming the highest base jump record when he happens to own the highest ledge to jump from and keeps it to himself.

For these artificial venues perhaps they need to deepen and widen the canal to give other contenders a chance to compete.

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Re: The World's Fastest Kite. Period

Postby tautologies » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:47 am

RAL INN wrote:I believe the only real issue that crosses all arguments over these speed events, is the nature of the venue.
There are plenty of sailing devises that would love to have a straight flat water run 150 Degrees off the wind planted right in the way of a historically high, mono directional , wind.

As with the Canal in France, there is a view that these artificial venues lack cred.

personally I believe that to claim a World sailing speed record that is open to any and all classes of sailing devices, you have to provide a level playing field.

Imagine a base jumper claiming the highest base jump record when he happens to own the highest ledge to jump from and keeps it to himself.

For these artificial venues perhaps they need to deepen and widen the canal to give other contenders a chance to compete.
They are saying the canal has to be at least 18 cm.

If they adhere to the rules, then it is fine. It is silly to start talking about legit or not. If the record is acknowledged and correct according to the rules of the competition, then it is fine...

I'm wondering why not the xbow?

Overall I think this is awesome.

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Re: The World's Fastest Kite. Period

Postby hombrekiteloop » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:14 am

peterbjarke wrote:The apparent wind is much much less than 70 knot! The course is so down wind (150 degrees) thay the appparent wind is only around 25 knots at 50 knot speed with a true wind at 40 knot. See forexample http://www.sailingusa.info/true_wind_calculator.htm
WOW. Thanks for the correction, I didn’t realise the course was so far down wind. I’m amazed that a 9m kite can make that much power in only 25kn of wind, I’m flying the wrong kite.

I was WAY off with the 70kn! But the information I found said the course is 140 off the wind. When I used the calculator I got;

"The direction to the apparent-wind is 53.79 degrees off the bow! The speed of the apparent-wind is 35.85 knots!!"

There’s a big difference between 25 and 36 (not nearly as much as 35 and 70, :-? doh) and 53.79 degrees of the bow (actually the course) is still 36 degrees forward. What’s the normal apparent angle for the average mortal kiter going hard upwind? I really wouldn’t even want to guess. Surely ultimately the speed is limited by how much power can be held and the AOA the kite can pull at. I guess perhaps AOA just limits the speed the kite can fly at and there’s much more to it than that.

[EDIT]
To me sailing really fast is sailing upwind (close to the apparent wind). Otherwise you could just fly a parachute straight downwind in a gale and you’re there. I don’t know what the course angle is but check out the apparent wind for this guy. It’s rather forward but he does get up to 126Mph!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJLFQ-1nGz0

There are many classes of speed sailing records, for example, around the world, ocean crossings, 1 Nm and 500m. The kite records are real and are amazing, they’re just short course records. Do it anyway you can but do it on water and powered only by wind. Last year Hydroptère managed an incredible 51kn over a nautical mile on open water. The amazing thing is it looks like there’s not a lot of wind. Again though, they’re sailing very close to the apparent wind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcCtJsNreiE

Kites have a long way to go before they get as close the limits of technology as Hydroptère is. I think these guys (the kiters) will continue smash the records for a few years to come.

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Re: The World's Fastest Kite. Period

Postby hombrekiteloop » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:09 pm

That apparent wind calculator is very interesting to play with. If the true wind drops from 45kn (the figure I've been using) to 40kn, the apparent wind actually increases slightly but the angle moves a long way forward. 55.65 speed, 40kn true wind, 140 degree course you get;

The direction to the apparent-wind is 45.79 degrees off the bow!!
The speed of the apparent-wind is 35.87 knots!!

If the wind drops to 35 then you get half a knot more speed but then angle moves way froward to 38 degrees off the bow.

So I guess the thing is when the wind relatively light you need a kite that goes up wind really well but as the strength increases you actually get less wind but at much less forward angle. I guess that's why the Switch Blade rather than the Crossbow.

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Re: The World's Fastest Kite. Period

Postby SBBeachbum » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:30 pm

KiteboardingTampaBay wrote: Having kite crossed out and replaced with "Sailing Device" is completely uncalled for.
Why else would it be there given the history?
It's part of a chinese company. What do you expect?

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Re: The World's Fastest Kite. Period

Postby KiteboardingTampaBay » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:12 pm

The experts don't have an answer for that question- its in poor taste and that's pretty undeniable.
Also undeniable is that I gave my opinion (and congratulated Rob :thumb: ) and was demonized by their reps.

How did they handle it?
At least 10 insults directed at me about "hate" and "issues" by their staff to my one opinion.

So, who's the real haters here?
Is it the guy who gave his opinion, or the guy(s) who can't handle a little criticism?

point proven, thanks for playing! :rollgrin:

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Re: The World's Fastest Kite. Period

Postby hombrekiteloop » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:47 pm

Did you fall on your head? :jump:

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RAL INN
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Re: The World's Fastest Kite. Period

Postby RAL INN » Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:24 pm

tautologies wrote: They are saying the canal has to be at least 18 cm.

If they adhere to the rules, then it is fine. It is silly to start talking about legit or not. If the record is acknowledged and correct according to the rules of the competition, then it is fine
I'm talking about a level playing field, 18cm precludes all but Kiters from using the venue.

All respect to those that have been crossing the 50Kt barrier They deserve the accolades.

This is a short course record but it is an open record, which when only one of the classes can use the venue that is manufactured to get these results then That is where I see the cred problem.

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Re: The World's Fastest Kite. Period

Postby hombrekiteloop » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:02 am

Unfortunately part of achieving these records is having the finances to fund the attempts. If digging the channel deeper will slow the kiters down then maybe it’s legit to insist that it be deeper. Otherwise I imagine it just comes down to a deeper channel costing more, just about anything can be done I you throw enough money at it. Hydroptère doesn’t give part of there funding to make it fair on the other guys, let the windsurfers dig their own channel.

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Re: The World's Fastest Kite. Period

Postby Feng » Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:09 am

hombrekiteloop wrote:.....
to make it fair on the other guys, let the windsurfers dig their own channel.
The windsurfers have already their channel at Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer in Camargue.
This is the place where the 5th march 2008 Antoine Albeau established the new speed recoard at 49,09 knots.


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