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 Post subject: Re: Ram Air Inferiority - Updated + Hyperlinks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:53 pm 
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Location: Miami @ 6" Flat Butter!
PMU nice update :thumb:
But I found no replacement for displacement in light winds for foil kites :lol:
Like the way you do it with "Refrigerator Door" and tweaking 4 windsurfing fins on it :wink:
If you're thinking a single inflatable skin will pull your heavy 300 lbs "geek" weight enough,
with a large displacement with "Refrigerator Door" you're living in an illusion :!:

Are you trying your new concept with a "Refrigerator Door" with 4 Windsurfing Fins
to re-Invent an old boring Windsurfing discipline or what :?:

DrLW


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 Post subject: Re: Ram Air Inferiority - Updated + Hyperlinks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:00 pm 
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Location: Iv.G.-Slovenia
No one can be this ignorant or stupid to write this kind of crap.
I bet PMU is Aron or someone from PRO guys (or even girls- Pump me up?), fooling around with our nerves and having a great lough.


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 Post subject: Re: Ram Air Inferiority - Updated + Hyperlinks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:09 pm 
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Location: midwest
I am not a fan of foils, mainly because I don't trust them to perform in the conditions I really like to ride in. Gnarly wind driven waves that come with cold weather and big mostly gusty wind. Wind levels 25-50 I have a 9,6 and getting a 4 all sle inflatables. I have never seen personally or on video/pictures of any foil handling these extreme conditions. By handling them I mean ripping, short lines, very aggressive kite flying/positioning in the window. Can a foil be relaunched after it goes through a couple of these? How would a comparable foil react to the 55 knot gusts my kite was getting blasted with?

Image


i didn't even read PMU's rant don't need to, what I would like to see is somebody riding hard with a foil, putting it through the ringer and coming up with some other reason to even consider one other then the yawn boring pursuit of light wind kiting(which should be considered day sailing not kiteboarding)


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 Post subject: Re: Ram Air Inferiority - Updated + Hyperlinks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:52 pm 
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Location: Fuerteventura
crash&burn wrote:
I am not a fan of foils, mainly because I don't trust them to perform in the conditions I really like to ride in. Gnarly wind driven waves that come with cold weather and big mostly gusty wind. Wind levels 25-50 I have a 9,6 and getting a 4 all sle inflatables. I have never seen personally or on video/pictures of any foil handling these extreme conditions. By handling them I mean ripping, short lines, very aggressive kite flying/positioning in the window. Can a foil be relaunched after it goes through a couple of these? How would a comparable foil react to the 55 knot gusts my kite was getting blasted with?

Image


i didn't even read PMU's rant don't need to, what I would like to see is somebody riding hard with a foil, putting it through the ringer and coming up with some other reason to even consider one other then the yawn boring pursuit of light wind kiting(which should be considered day sailing not kiteboarding)


Well here is a video of Eddy Lansink in extreme condtions:


This video clip even made it into the Intro Sequence if the "On the Loose" Videos from Ruben Lenten.

Then there is this.


--
Gunnar


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 Post subject: Re: Ram Air Inferiority - Updated + Hyperlinks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:34 pm 
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Location: Sailing the Seas of Cheese
The GEEKS part made me laugh. :lol: PMU has some pent up rage that's for sure. I wouldn't waste that much effort on a college term paper let alone a gripe against a type of kite people used. But thanks for the laugh.

Besides, who cares what anyone else is riding? Ride what you like. As long as #1 is happy, who gives a rip? I feel bad when I'm riding a brand new, awesome, properly sized for conditions kite and I go past some newb lit up, getting his head jerked off trying to ride a giant C-kite he bought off E-bay for $300.


I object more to the use of techno music in every kiteboard video I click on in the last 3 years..... :duh:
This isn't The Matrix.
Somebody add some METAL as the soundtrack. :mosh:
(Yes I'm looking at you, UK and Germany..... 8) )


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 Post subject: Re: Ram Air Inferiority - Updated + Hyperlinks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:06 pm 
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@ crash and burn

those are pretty good waves :)

my point of view.
the things, i don t like much in LEI ( despite i ride some to test/try out the progress) are, that they aren t stable ( i mean, compared to foil/ARC), correct me if i m too wrong.
when i totally sheet out, i can t control the kite much (slack rear lines) and it will fall down to the water ( not an hinderburg thing, just the side relaunch thing), it won t hang in the air , depowered ( well..it will but not 20/30sec + or 10mn-4h like ARCs)
in waves, they don t float over the waves...they are half in, half out and get tumbled by the waves.and behind u get pushed by the kite, lines under tension = kites might rip apart?

on the other hand, it allows a good depower-no-pull-remaining for waveriding. which is good.

foil/ARC
they are more stable, when u fall, u have a good chance that the kites will remain in the air, bar out.even more for the ARCs which will go to the zenith parked, depowered
foil and arc float over the water ( despite the waves catch exist like for LEIs)
foils can be reverse launched fast in emergency to avoid the wave
ARCS will remain in the air 90% of the time
arcs have still a remaining pull even depowered ( not that good for waveriding) due to the autozenith
foils are more like SLE now.

shit happens anyway with foil,arcs and LEI

gusty conditions.
i prefer ARCs over foils ( despite the new ones with changing projected area are pretty good), ARCs are very good in their upper wind range in gusty conditions but they are controlled like a C-shape , many peeps have a lot of troubles to change their riding style, timimng and so between SLE,bow,C-shape.
dunno if ther are small ARC like a 4 or 6 ( = a 4 SLE) for very high winds.....like yours

the thing i like with ARcs is that when u get tumbled under water, the kite will remain at the zenith, helping pulling you out of the water ( i mean it will act as a lifeline showing u, the air) as it still have a remaining pull, depowered, it might not be a perfect kite for waves.

new foils act like a SLE, u push out, u lose power, kite remains more stable in the air, but dunno what happens to the bridles when it get caught in a wave...the advantage is that they can be relaunched very fast in reverse launch, especially if u put a break line on them.

i prefer a stable kite in thair than a less stable one but with a good relaunch..
my philosphy ( and in LW conditions as well), i d rather have a kite in the air than having to relaunch one), better safe than sorry.

now i understand that anyone can disagree with that.
i like ARC behaviour in the air as they are uber stalbe. i like the new foils behaviour at depowering and good low end, and i like the LEI ability to kill almost all the power and to remain at the side of the window to be relaunched....i just need a mix of all that :)


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 Post subject: Re: Ram Air Inferiority - Updated + Hyperlinks
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:07 am 
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Location: Japan
Arcs in gusty winds is gravy :yes: before I got my 13m Crossbow, I was (and will again!) riding my 19m Synergy in the 25-35 knot gusty westerlies we had here at the end of fall. Gust munching goodness! Well that's big wind and gusty for here :D

And yes they do make a 6m Charger - PM me if you want one!


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 Post subject: Re: Ram Air Inferiority - Updated + Hyperlinks
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:02 pm 
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Quote:
riding my 19m Synergy in the 25-35 knot gusty westerlies


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That has to be the quote of the year, hilarious :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Ram Air Inferiority - Updated + Hyperlinks
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:17 pm 
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JGTR wrote:
Quote:
riding my 19m Synergy in the 25-35 knot gusty westerlies


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That has to be the quote of the year, hilarious :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


nearly as good as this :

Quote:
How would a comparable foil react to the 55 knot gusts my kite was getting blasted with?


no way on earth that he was ever out in 55knots.


in all seriousness though, for light winds the 15 foil works really well for me, once the wind gets to 20 knots though i love being on my 10m RPM and in waves it has to be the tube all the way.


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 Post subject: Re: Ram Air Inferiority - Updated + Hyperlinks
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:33 pm
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Location: europe
JGTR wrote:
Quote:
riding my 19m Synergy in the 25-35 knot gusty westerlies


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That has to be the quote of the year, hilarious :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


dunno, i think kami is a "heavy" rider.
a 19 synergy ismore or less equal to a 14/15 LEI/foil so 25/30 might be right depending his weight.


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