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 Post subject: Re: i quit IKO to start kite safe asia KSA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:40 am 
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hopefully i will clear this up in one post. my school blue lagoon pattaya is associated with KBA. our collective buying power mean we can supply equipment to kiters at world best prices. i would like to add that i am setting up the KSA independently with my good friend sam marks. we have some volunteers to be local reps around asia. i am still looking for a rep for vietnam. this whole thing will not work without support. my own company magnumboards.com has fronted 5000usd for the start up funds. eran in hua hin has offered the services of his web designer free of charge. ann a local kiter has offered some office space free of charge untill we get running. it is my goal to provide this organisation as cheaply as possible. we hope to achieve this by securing sponsorship where possible.
i am forming the kite safe association ok KSA to achieve the following

1)set up and follow minimum safety guidelines
2)advance safety and grow kite boarding
3)help with getting liability insurance for schools and individuals
4) promote local events and sponsor local riders
5)implement a real global licensing system with real license cards for riders and instructors

i am getting alot off positive feedback on the forums and the ocasional negative ones. all i am asking for is a chance to launch this without bias. we will only get one chance. one a name is ruined then it will never work. i am offering complete transparency and will publish the accounting books online. we are working like crazy now registering our business name, setting up our offices and building websites. meetings this month should help us to form an international association that can be recognised world wide. if youwould like to help us or join us then please message me. thanks to all, and happy new year.


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 Post subject: Re: i quit IKO to start kite safe asia KSA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 1073
Location: Kite Shop owner in Bali
We in Bali support KSA.
Bye Jankie


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 Post subject: Re: i quit IKO to start kite safe asia KSA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:54 am 
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thanks jankie. this association will be as good as the people in it. i look foward to meeting every school owner or manager in asia. note all schools will be able to join free of charge for at lease the first year and all iko level 2 instructors will automatically be granted KSA level 2 licence status. magnumboards.com might have to come to the party with a bit more funding but i am determined to see this is done right.


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 Post subject: Re: i quit IKO to start kite safe asia KSA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:09 am 
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I support what you are trying to do, but I think you need to carefully consider what the organization's stated goals should be. In particular I think that these goals are problematic:

kiwimike wrote:
KSA to achieve the following

1)set up and follow minimum safety guidelines
2)advance safety and grow kite boarding
3)help with getting liability insurance for schools and individuals
4) promote local events and sponsor local riders
5)implement a real global licensing system with real license cards for riders and instructors

I don't think that anyone will have a problem with items 1, 3, 4 or with advancing safety. However, I don't think that a serious organization for an inherently risky sport should have the explicit goal to increase the number of participants in the sport. I understand that kiteschool owners and instructors are interested in seeing a continuous stream of beginners; but it ought not be a professional organization's goal to try to induce more people to enter the sport. The organization should not risk getting seen as a marketing tool for kiteschools, or as an organization skimming money from beginner courses. That would inevitably lead to a loss of credibility. Witness what has happened to the image of IKO (and, as another example, what has happened to the image of PADI in the professional scuba diving community).

To ensure that beginners are met by competent instructors who follow basic safety guidelines - YES. To promise to directly market the sport - NO.

So, strike that goal.

kiwimike wrote:
5)implement a real global licensing system with real license cards for riders and instructors

A global licensing system is not a good idea. I assume that you were simply a bit careless with your words; but in either case "license" means an official document giving permission to do something that is otherwise prohibited (by law or by other regulation). In other words, it makes it sound like you are for government regulation of the sport. I don't think I need to tell you how bad idea that would be (for the sport, or for the image of your organization).

I think the word you are looking for is "certification" and "certificate", similar to how other high-risk sports such as paragliding and scuba-diving successfully regulate themselves in most areas (and, by doing so, keep the authorities away). That is the way to go.


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 Post subject: Re: i quit IKO to start kite safe asia KSA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:53 am 
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Location: Thailand
Saami wrote:
I support what you are trying to do, but...

All excellent points, Saami.
The looming danger is the conflict of interest.
In no way the associated schools and shops should be allowed to influence the would-be organisation outside the spheres of teaching and safety. The setting of standards cannot be a way to promote particular brands or schools.


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 Post subject: Re: i quit IKO to start kite safe asia KSA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 1073
Location: Kite Shop owner in Bali
My humble opinion...
The new KSA should embrace the standards and methods of BKSA.
No need to come out with new stuff etc... Everything is already there!!!
Bye Jankie


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 Post subject: Re: i quit IKO to start kite safe asia KSA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:48 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Columbus, OH, Kiteboarder
Mike,
I applaud your efforts and wish you the best of luck.
It can be a lonely and thankless job, trying to lead a non-profit venture to the benefit of all.
There will always be those detractors and naysayers, but if you remain true to your intentions and confront all obstacles with an open mind, you have the best chance for success.
I think Saami makes some good points too (as well as several others in this thread).
Language can seem like a small thing, but can carry a lot of significance. I think his suggestions are well thought out and reasoned. In the US, the term License has legal implications, that certification does not.
While at the same time, certification shows a willingness by the participant to learn and attempt to follow guidelines that are in the interest of all.
Keep up the good work, and do not let the position influence your integrity.
Good Winds,
Ken
PS we do not have any local organization in our area except a loosely organized groups of enthusiastic kiteboaders. We self police and try to help each other be safe and enjoy this wonderful sport. I think locals know their location best and should have a lot of influence in how to implement those guidelines.


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 Post subject: Re: i quit IKO to start kite safe asia KSA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:02 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:22 am
Posts: 160
good points.
i agree that the BKSA system is i great system and this is what we are hoping to model our asian association on. if we can affiliate ourselves with them then this will be our goal.
certification is better terminology. of course it is better to certify riders than licence them.
kiteboarding is in my opinion the greatest sport in the world. it is the greatest thing that ever happened to me. this sport will grow for many years. the more it grows the more it will be accepted. if we have alot of people involved in the sport then beaches will be less likley to be closed to kiting. i believe growing the sport is a legitimate goal. we are non profit, our books will be published online. any aditional income will go straight back into legitimate expenditure.
thanks to all for your input. please keep it coming.


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 Post subject: Re: i quit IKO to start kite safe asia KSA
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:14 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Cabarete
kiwimike wrote:
the examiner has been removed from all future training activities. seems i have been vindicated. i suppose an apology is out of the question.


That was about time! I had problems as well with the same examinar in January 2009 on a snow course.
I am a level two water instructor by IKO standards but he came to the conclusion that I should not get my snow license. Not even with shadow teaching as the IKO system has. It really almost never happens that somebody doesnt get his instructor license so for me as instructor 2 water to not get it....?

As disappointed as I was with the examiner, the IKO disappointed me even more with replies I got on my complains.


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 Post subject: Re: i quit IKO to start kite safe asia KSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 287
Latest I heard is that IKO is run by the scientologists :o


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