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Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

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davince
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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby davince » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:28 am

Thanks koma.

I think I have found a mine with foilzone.
For example:
"...
The problem with the 19 and the 15 is on water you really start having fun at about the same time. My lowend on the 19 is about 8 knots, the 15 is probably 9 knots. The 15 is a much more fun kite to fly.

... The difference between the 19 and 15 is not what you think it would be because the 19 has way more drag than the 15 does. 19 pulls more like a tank all the time, 15 not so much.

My advice is get a 15 not a 19 unless you already have a 15. Even if you're over 200 lbs."
http://www.foilzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopi ... 15&t=12292

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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby duloid » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:45 am

Hi Davince

Had the same dilemma few moths ago and I bought 15m deluxe, but I weight only 70 kg.

I'm so happy with that kite, used to have Speed 1 and Speed 2, but nothing can compare to Speed 3,except the low end. Turn faster, better wind range and feel much more safe..

I'm starting at 7 knots and had few sessions when wind was up to 20 knots and didn't have a problem.

Didn't get a chance to fly 19, so can't tell you more ...

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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby jumarcil » Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:51 am

This summer I bought a speed 3 15m std and I was able to start planning at 8 knots with a big board. Between 10 and 15 this kite is a total blast; jumping machine and lots of hangtime. I was able to hold it until about 20 knots (trimmed with a smaller board).

The thing is I also had an xBow 13m which allowed me also to start kiting at 8 knots and I could keep it up to a little bit over 20 knots. I had about the same range but the Speed 3 was smoother and had way more hangtime and more power.

I now sold my Speed 3 15m for a Speed 3 19m. I was able to get a really great deal on a Speed 3 that had 1 hour usage. I haven't tried it on water yet but I must admit that on snow as soon as you feel a bit of wind you ride. That kite is really powerful but I must admit that the 15 is more fun to ride. I think that it will be areal blast in those really light session next summer. I will be really flying in 10 knots.

So it all depends on what you want; if you want the most powerful kite that you can get; go for the 21m. If you don't care about missing a couple of sessions go with the 15m. It is a kind of kite that you can ride on a daily basis at your weight. It really is a blast. If you go with the 19m or 21m at some point you will have to change your kite if the wind start to rise.

I also tried the 12m deluxe on snow on wow that kite is really awesome; it is really fast for its size. If I ever get a bit of extra cash I will get one for sure.

Jules

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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby DrLightWind » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:20 am

Jules is right, it depends what you want.
But let me tell you my opinion since I have the 15m DLX
and flown the 19m and 21m sizes in DLX.
With your weight and experience I wouldn't even consider
the 15m under 12 knots for trying to maximize your time in light winds.
For you the starting usable range is about 12 knots without strugling
and the fun range would start to kick in at 14 to 23 knots comfortably.
If you'd like to properly invest your money for the proper size for you,
I'd like to suggest for you to read more about the low end, who has flown them.
There is a thread on foilzone which will help you to decide under:
"Need advice for S3 15 DE in light wind"

http://www.foilzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopi ... =1&t=13268

DrLW

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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby poldo » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:10 am

koma wrote:I'm an 80kg rider on a 134x42 Nobile NHP
You'll have to add a bit for your additional 20kg on top of my weight... but this should give you an idea of the range they've got. In terms of the sweet spot of each kite i'd happily use it in the powered and lit range, and i'd be wanting to put it down in the overpowered range. That said i'm quite fussy about which kite i'm on and will always prefer to use a smaller faster kite without any depower pulled than a bigger kite with depower.

Flysurfer Speed 3 19m Standard
Planing in 6 kn
Powered at 7-8 kn
Lit at 9-10kn
Overpowered at 12-13kn

Flysurfer Speed 3 15m Standard
Planing in 8 kn
Powered at 10 kn
Lit at 12-14 kn
Overpowered at 16-17kn

Flysurfer Speed 3 12m Deluxe
Planing in 11 kn
Powered at 14 kn
Lit at 18 kn
Overpowered at ~22-24 kn

I was out yesterday with a guy who just bought a Wainman Big Mama 15m and he's very happy with it. He's a bigger solidly built guy that i'd guess would be about 105kg and had most of the depower pulled in whilst i was riding my Torch 12m in ~17-18kn. I personally use an old Slingshot Fuel 15m for my lightwind duties, but i think it's time to ditch it and get something lightwind specific. Of all the kites i've tried i'd personally choose the Flysurfer 15m standard for my weight... so the 19m might be the kite of choice for you.
these range seems odd to me....I'm 66 KG and holds the Sp3 19m (not mine, borrowed) easily in 15 kts with a 130x39 tt (well powered but not overpowered)

but coming back to the post if your weight is around 90 Kg I would go directly to the 19m

range of sp3 15m fo your weight is similar (perhaps 1kt better....but really few) to other 15m LEI specific for LW

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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby davince » Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:07 pm

Thanks a lot for all these responses.

Thanks again DrLightwind. I have been quickly through the foilzone thread. Interesting.
I also read there that you're 65kg.
For the Speed 3 15m2 Deluxe there seems to be a consensus on the "sweetspot" at 11-16+knts. Basically the 4bft range and slightly above. Can you confirm? I understand you (DrLightwind) find it not sufficient on the low end. Just for your info, 4bft is a very frustrating wind range at 100kg, because everybody else is having fun on pretty much anything, except you.

The Speed 3 19 DLX is tempting of course because I should feel more covered in light winds, say around 10-12knts. Although some think different: "My advice is get a 15 not a 19 unless you already have a 15. Even if you're over 200 lbs." http://www.foilzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopi ... 15&t=12292. And also I expect a serious trade off on the fun factor above 12knts with the 19 vs S3 15 DLX. I assume also that a 15m2 would combine better with a 12m2 C-shape. Whereas I fear the dilemma at 15knts with a 19 " enough for the 12? Too much for a 19?".

About what I want... Again, all I want is to have at least as much fun as all the others on their 14 (or even on 12 or 10m kites) with a gentle 4bft. I am not so much into kiting around 8 knots. We have got plenty of days at 4 Beaufort and, at the lower range of it, it's no fun for me. So far.
Only at 16+knts the fun starts, and then, anything between 12-14m2 would do great for me.

Most will recommend to consider a good big tube kite (like Zephyr or deltas or bows). I still do consider them, and I am sure their good. But my instinct tells me that a foil like the speed must perform better for me when reaching the critical 10-12knts.

Please fire on. Share your comments, I appreciate. I maybe sound like I already made my mind but it is not so. A new kite is quite an expense, mind you a flysurfer. I want to make the best choice, so all input is welcome.

cheers.

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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby naishdude » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:40 pm

davince wrote:Most will recommend to consider a good big tube kite (like Zephyr or deltas or bows). I still do consider them, and I am sure their good. But my instinct tells me that a foil like the speed must perform better for me when reaching the critical 10-12knts.

Please fire on. Share your comments, I appreciate. I maybe sound like I already made my mind but it is not so. A new kite is quite an expense, mind you a flysurfer. I want to make the best choice, so all input is welcome.
cheers.
Davince,
You are always talking about a kite, but which board do you use or better, do you want to use, it is not only the kite that will get you going.
If you like or do not mind directionals, then you could consider a free race board like I mentioned before something like an Airush Sector, this ( if you do not want a tube) together with a 15m Speed3 , and this means you will not need a 19 or 21 m.
I have been sailing my Airush sector 60 board with a 12m tube kite ( at 80kg) when a friend of mine was kiting with his Flysurfer 21m and a door ( at 95kg)....just to give you an idea what a more specific lightwind board would/could do

I get away with my Ozone Zephyr and my sector 60 at around 7 to 8 knots and it takes a trained hand to get it going once it goes you have the fun.
This said the same combo could get you going with fun at around 10 to 11 knots ....

I have had the speed2 15m too...but this is more fun for me...The speed3 15m will bring you less lowend..than the speed2.

Just my thoughts ...it is the combination, board /kite, but the function of the board in this case is an bigger one than a lot consider it is...

Frank

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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby davince » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:11 pm

naishdude wrote: Davince,
You are always talking about a kite, but which board do you use or better, do you want to use,

Frank
davince wrote:.... I intend primarily to use this kite with a "regular" twin-tip (135x42).
I can already get cruising with 12-15knts on my twin tip 135x42 and my ozone instinct 13m2. Just a lot of work, not much fun, can hardly jump, happy if I can keep ground and if the water is rough I can't.
Don't you think it should work in 11-15kts with a Flysurfer speed 15m2 DLX instead?

I have become careful at going too big in size. So often you gain a tiny bit low end and you loose much on everything else. This my worry when chosing a 19 instead of the 15m2 speed FS.


So afraid to gain 1 maybe 2 knots at the bottom end with a FS speed 19m2 and to loose an all other aspects.

No offence but the race board thing let's me cold

Sure I like more boards. Something like a surfboard some day maybe. But one thing at a time. And I don't like all this to turn into an arms race (like it almost killed windsurfing). I tend to think less is more. I like the simplicity of kitesurfing.
Two kites one board, free like a bird!
Well three kites then if you're the elephant bird type like me

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DrLightWind
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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby DrLightWind » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:24 pm

davince wrote:Thanks again DrLightwind. I have been quickly through the foilzone thread. Interesting.
I also read there that you're 65kg.
For the Speed 3 15m2 Deluxe there seems to be a consensus on the
"sweetspot" at 11-16+knts.
Basically the 4bft range and slightly above. Can you confirm?
I understand you (DrLightwind) find it not sufficient on the low end. Just for your info,
4bft is a very frustrating wind range at 100kg, because everybody else is having fun on pretty much anything, except you.

The Speed 3 19 DLX is tempting of course because I should feel more covered in light winds, say around 10-12knts. Although some think different: "My advice is get a 15 not a 19 unless you already have a 15. Even if you're over 200 lbs." http://www.foilzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopi ... 15&t=12292. And also I expect a serious trade off on the fun factor above 12knts with the 19 vs S3 15 DLX. I assume also that a 15m2 would combine better with a 12m2 C-shape. Whereas I fear the dilemma at 15knts with a 19 " enough for the 12? Too much for a 19?".
I agree the "sweetspot" for you would be slightly above 4bft range for the 15m.
Also I agree of the above statement you should be more covered and have more pulling power
around 10 - 12 knots range with the 19m DLX and your weight combo.
The 19m has a good depower range and with your weight up to 20 knots you'll be having fun,
without being overpowered, boosting big with unbelievable hangtime.
What is important to understand the proper displacement of canopy and pulling power for your weight.
If you don't have that and can't apply that for your weight to pull you on plane than you'll be strugling
and if you're trying to make that up with a race board it will be boring and frustrating after a while.
Personally I don't think you would be pleased with Zephyr because it's very similar to the 15m Speed
and the low end pulling is not that good as the Speed3 plus the relaunching in light winds is not the best vs. 15m Speed3.
But these are my opinion based on my experiences.

DrLW

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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby dansheridan » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:30 pm

if you are focusing totally on light wind go with the 19m and you will not be let down.
but remember it is also the board too, you can't ask a small TT to do a light wind boards job.
I have the 19m and love it with my jimmy lewis 6'5 thruster surfboard.
nice cruzy set up.
but you must remeber it is not all the kite.
I have tried a race board and didn't like it ( too lineal ). skimboard was fun, big twin was fun but the strapless surfboard i find the most fun.
even when the wind picks up and i grab the kahoonas i love strapless
but if lightwind only is the focus go 19m
if upper light and medium winds is your focus go 15m
PS i have held he 19m down in 28knots, so don't let people scare you on the upper limits of the speed 3
at 28 knots it was nuts but i kited on a 100cm TT for 3 hours at 25-28 knots one day.
jumping was insane, the lines where screaming, but i lived.
ripped my wife's diamond earring out when she landed me and that was a 1 hour argument , but i lived.


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