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Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

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airsurfer
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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby airsurfer » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:27 am

The S315 is a great kite you will probably need at least a steady 12knots+ with regular twintip to have fun and spend some time practicing this style of kite the sweetspot being 15knot-20knots. I weigh 85kg but have ridden the S3 15 from 10knots big board to gusts to 27 knots with a small board and chest high waves not recommended but capable. The 15 pulls like a truck and jumps long and high. I've never the tried the Speed 3 19 but now own the Speed 3 21M and is a blast to ride for me it's fun up to 15 knots although I've it held in gusts to 20knots not scary but not as much fun. I don't leave home without the 21.

naishdude the Speed 3 has 4 lines like most LEIs (the FLS safety line is like many other mini 5th rides on the same leaderline.) I agree with you the Sector is a fun board and the board is as important as the kite but davince already owns a TT and the sector is a freerace style board much more one dimensional also takes more room in the car not very good for waves and not cheap. For me anyway it's more fun to jump high and wakstyle on a regular TT in 8-12knots with Speed 3 21 than to cruise around on my Sector 60. Davice you could also save a tonn of money and ride a 14M LEI with a surfboard there is a local guy here that weighs about as much as you and rides a 7 foot surfboard and 14M SS TD2 and does really well from 10knots, no jumping or tricks but if you have waves could be fun too.

Oldnbroken so from 200 feet away she looked great then when she came ashore you realized she was a Big Mama LOL dude if you don't even ride/own the kite why bother posting? I totally agree it's not a kite for everyone only those that really like to ride fast and powered and get big air, there are days I prefer to ride LEIs even in light wind it just depends on the conditions and what you want to do. Riding the Speed 3s is like driving a muscle car it begs you to push the limits so it's not as relaxing as an LEI . Unless you've experienced the power and performance of the Speed 3 kites you will never understand why some people like them and are willing to spend the extra cash. BTW - I am sure the big mama is a great kite too because Lou is a bad ass rider and wouldn't settle for any less.

L0KI
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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby L0KI » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:21 am

I've watched my best buddy, a 265lb man, struggle for years with lots of kites that work OK at best.
He loves the Mama and raves about how his kite problems are solved.
I've flown the Mama and own the Boss and know very well what she can do.
Thought it might be helpful information for another big guy.....Cool?

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Pump me up
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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby Pump me up » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:34 am

Flysurfer sweetspot...
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s1buell_wl
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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby s1buell_wl » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:28 pm

davince

I'll add my .02

I have too many kites it’s a f'n disease

Large kites (14m North & Spd 3 DL 15m). UG 134X42 & Mako 150 & Cab Delux 138X42

The guys are right Board makes a difference!

I personally didn't buy large kites for light winds and it sounds like your leaning to this type of riding. If I can't jump I don't kite (it's beer time). I like to ride powered. I have the Spd 3 for high and long old school with onshore winds. I have the north 14m for the nasty off shore and micro loop days (The micro loop is important for me).

You have answered the question "what do I want

“About what I want... Again, all I want is to have at least as much fun as all the others on their 14 (or even on 12 or 10m kites) with a gentle 4bft. I am not so much into kiting around 8 knots. We have got plenty of days at 4 Beaufort and, at the lower range of it, it's no fun for me. So far.
Only at 16+knts the fun starts, and then, anything between 12-14m2 would do great for me.”

@ 100k you will need 13k-14k on a 15m speed 3 to get going and have fun (with 134x42 type board). 140+X42+ board will get you even lower

I’m @80k and I can kite on my UG 134X42 at 12kns no issue every kn past this the power increase x2. The sweet spot for me is as they say 14-18kns. I can hold the 15m spd 3 without depower until 18kns. The depower is really good. I hold the 14m north up to 20-23kns before depower. But I like to ride powered. My typical day when everyone is launching 8m-10m Kite I’m pulling out at least a 14m.

I’m thinking you at 100k will need 13-14kn to start off with out pumping the kite the entire session. I also agree the 19m is to slow (but if your a big guy 110k + its the ticket). If you really want to get down to 10kns you’ll need a spd 19m, zeph, big mama 17m or so. Your sweet spot will be 15-21kns on a 15m foil. You have a 13m now know one thing the 15m foil flys allot slower then the tube kites. You will also need to learn a different flying style. You have to watch this style does not interfere with your normal tube style. Due to wind I was forced to fly the 15m foil for I think a good 3 months. Man when I pulled out the 10m SS RPM it almost killed me! I felt like I was hooked it a bee that’s was really pissed.

Also people forget to take into consideration their location when choosing a kite. Foils are great don’t get me wrong but if you’re in an off shore chop infested waters a tube might be better.

I have a buddy he’s a free rider @ 100k Mako 150 and loves the 19m spd 3. He can now get on the water at 12kns powered. It’s a great match for cruising!

Hope this helps!
I don’t agree about the cost thing…. I friend of mine picked a speed3 up from silentsports for 2100 Can….. that’s not far from the cost of my 14m north!

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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby HAMLINDP » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:56 pm

Pump me up wrote:Flysurfer sweetspot...
I love you, man!

I do like FS, but your post cracked me up all the same. Very funny :lol:

Thanks for making my day a little brighter.

David :)

davince
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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby davince » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:52 am

Thanks a lot s1buell.

Although you puzzle me.
s1buell_wl wrote: @ 100k you will need 13k-14k on a 15m speed 3 to get going and have fun (with 134x42 type board).
...
The sweet spot for me is as they say 14-18kns.
What's the point of a 15m2 foil then?

Oh! that's why...
s1buell_wl wrote: ... But I like to ride powered. My typical day when everyone is launching 8m-10m Kite I’m pulling out at least a 14m.
s1buell_wl wrote: If you really want to get down to 10kns you’ll need a spd 19m, zeph, big mama 17m or so.
You mean that the speed 19m2 is comparable to the zephyr 17m2 or big mama 15m2? Then they all have better low-wind capabilities than the S3 15m dlx? Funny, from my research i understood that the low-end of the S3 15m dlx was at least equivalent to the zephyr 17...
s1buell_wl wrote: Your sweet spot will be 15-21kns on a 15m foil. You have a 13m now...
Help! What's the point then! What a disappointment. The sweet spot on my 13m2 ozone instinct from 5 years ago is already 15-20 knts, and I can start around 12knts. Then I keep my old kite... Can't a speed3 15 deluxe achieve any better?

BTW, contrary to you I like to get the smallest kite possible, as long as I a feel powered. More fun to me. I find more efficient to grab a slightly larger board and to use the kite in the wind range it's been designed for. I find that although being heavy I don't need so much extra kite as long as I can get moving. 1-2 cm extra width on the board works better than an extra 2m2 kite. Especially with modern kites which have a larger wind range. To give an idea: it's not surprising these days to see comparable riders on a 14m2 and a 7m2 side by side. Both doing well.
Alas, this doesn't work so well in the gentle breeze (4bft, 11-15knts, 13-17mph). A pity because these kind of winds are nice to practice new tricks. If I decide to do the new tricks anyway, then I walk.
s1buell_wl wrote: I have a buddy he’s a free rider @ 100k Mako 150 and loves the 19m spd 3. He can now get on the water at 12kns powered. It’s a great match for cruising!
Sounds good too.
Just afraid of the trade off. 19m2 is so massive. Would it be worth the gain?

Thanks again

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Pump me up
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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby Pump me up » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:29 am

davince wrote: Just afraid of the trade off. 19m2 is so massive. Would it be worth the gain?
Please don't buy a large Ram Air. I've listed the reasons below why you need to avoid them:
:jump:
14: LIGHT WINDS

Ram airs are inferior light wind kites for the following reasons:

a) Excessive drag (bridles, lack of internal rigidity), compromising the Lift/Drag ratio
b) VERY slow turning

c) Inertia. The Speed 2 19 contains over 11kg of air in its pockets, compared to about 3kg in the largest inflatables.
d) Bridle failures and tangling
e) Wind dropouts and gear failure
--EVERYONE experiences a few gear failures (eg broken lines) and COMPLETE wind dropouts every year. You're usually safe with an inflatable. It can be used to "self-rescue" or you can swim in with the kite. If things go REALLY bad, you can just use the inflatable structure to support your weight, eg viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2368004
--ALL ram airs become hopelessly waterlogged after 45 minutes - unlaunchable and certainly unable to support your body weight.
eg viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2346569
eg viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2358958&p=608890#p608890
eg viewtopic.php?t=2359156&p=617396
-- The following is an example of "diraklib's" experience with ram airs in wind dropouts:
diraklib wrote:"the SA-19 is huge and can whack you silly if you let it get down wind of you in a low wind launch. It is downright scary - be ready with the QR at all times if not up and riding!!! I can't say I agree with claims that you can ride the SA-19 in anything lower than a steady 8 knots. I made a personal choice to not ride the SA-19 any more. It went down twice in lulls and managed to bow-tie on the way down - there was no way to relaunch. I was not as lucky as others that self rescued. My kite was full of water by the time I dragged my very tired and frustrated a$$ to shore. It sounds simple, "wrap the lines around the bar, fold the kite in half, roll it up on your board and paddle in"... noooo... there are lines everywhere under water that wrap around your feet as you are trying to manipulate the kite. You just pray that a gust won't pop the kite up and slice of an appendage. The kite ... is just too scary when it goes down. My attitude now is - if my LEI won't fly, I shouldn't be on the water. Anyone interested in a slightly used SA2-19m??? Cheap???"
For the full admission, checkout the following link: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2360979&start=40

-- The following is an example of FredBGG's experience with a line failure:
FredBGG wrote:The other day I had a front line fail.
Wind was slightly off shore...
I really needed a tow to the beach.
I had the kite safely on the 5th line folded in half (flysurfer Foil)
I waved down two kiters.... both expert judging by their riding.
Both refused to help.
One even yelled if you can't relaunch it's your problem.
Anyway after a difficult ordeal in the surf and current I got back to the beach.
I had to rest a bit but my board was still out there.
For the full admission viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2362065

The problem here isn't with the other kiters, it's with Fred's choice of kite. If Fred had an inflatable, he would have been able to "self-rescue" by grabbing the tips and "sailing" to shore. The other kiters refusing to help is understandable: Fred made the choice to choose less safe equipment (ram airs - for self rescue) - it's his problem and he shouldn't impose on others to make up for the deficiencies in his equipment. Also, towing a Flysurfer to shore is like towing a sleeping bag full of water - horrible.

f) 8 knot limit
-- Despite what anybody tells you, you won't really have fun on any kite (ram air OR inflatable) unless the wind is over about 8 knots. This is the starting point for BOTH ram airs and inflatables, but because of the reasons I've outlined above, inflatables are vastly superior. And this is just the starting point. You won't really be having fun until it hits about 10 knots on an inflatable OR a ram air.
- Ram lovers have been shown to lie repeatedly about their light wind capabilities:
eg "jumping 8m in 8 knots" viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6349
eg viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2350141&p=539227#p539227
eg
gmb13 wrote: Please let me know which Kite you use that will allow me to get out in less than 5 knots. My Speed 3 19 DL gives up under 5 knots, so if you could please let me know about a flying tyre that will outdo my Speed3 please let me know - Gunnar Biniasch
NO kite - ram air or inflatable - will perform in under ~8 knots and NO KITE WILL PERFORM UNDER 5 KNOTS. The physics is complex, but primarily involves the power that wind moving at 7 knots (13km/h) can deliver. There is simply not enough power or velocity at this wind speed for ANY kite to perform.
Gunnar's exaggerations and lies can be found at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2361421 This is typical of the ridiculous and unsubstantiated claims made by ram lovers. Kitesurfing in under 5 knots.......laughable. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

g) Objective Testing
-- A variety of kites were tested in light wind conditions in San Diego a few years ago viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2319439&hilit=ram+a ... +san+diego . Despite the ridiculous over-hyped claims from Flysurfer reps like Ted Bautista, Flysurfer ram air kites crashed and burned. The overall consensus was that Flysurfer ram air kites are ok in light wind, but they turn VERY SLOWLY. The overall impression was that there are much better inflatables. It's interesting that a lot of the ram air guys who were excited about this showdown were remarkably SILENT afterwards, in particular, Ted Bautista, the U.S. rep for Flysurfer. His alpha-male chest-beating rants in the lead up to this showdown almost defied belief.
For an example of the LIES that ram lovers tell about their kites, checkout viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2350141&p=539227#p539227
h ) Flysurfer and Light Winds
See the thread about the poor light wind properties of Flysurfer viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2349064

i) Peter Frank's opinion
Peter Frank, a well respected commentator on the sport, says 8-9 knots is the bare minimum viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2365531
Peter_Frank wrote:
Night_Thrasher wrote:What is the lowest wind condition I can go kitesurfing and what is the best kite brand and size for it?
It depends a lot on your weight, how low you can go.

If you are "average" around 80kg, the lowest you can go will be around 5m/s (10knots) with the right kite and board.

If you are REALLY experienced, you will be able to push the lower limit down to about 8-9 knots, but this is the absolute lowest wind possible to kitesurf in (holding ground/going upwind) with average weight IMO.

We are talking about 14-17m2 typical SLE kites and raceboards here :naughty:

And talking about EXACTLY how "low you can go" is just pure bullshit - as you can not measure the windspeed at the kite, which is the only true value for this.

Sometimes you have a huge windgradient, sometimes a small one, and air temperature and height also influences.

But around 10knots is the limit for most kitesurfers, and just a small tad lower for the "extreme" ones :thumb:


When you talk about windspeed - where is it measured then ?
At headheight, maybe around 2 meter above the water ?
Or at 10 meter height, which is our (Denmark) meterological standard height for wind measurements ?
There is a difference of typical 2 knots, so VERY important.


My point is - always take those claiming "this and that" as their minimum wind speed with a grain of salt :roll:

But the answer to your question would IMO be around or just below 10 knots measured at 2 meters height (in normal "summer" temperatures), and it is not dependant on brand, as many brands has excellent kites for this - and more and more has raceboards now too.

8) Peter
There are better inflatable kite options for light winds, eg http://forum.bestkiteboarding.com/viewtopic.php?t=6999

:jump:

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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby Kamikuza » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:21 am

Pump me up wrote:Flysurfer sweetspot...
Flysurfers won't fit in there - it's full of leaking bladders and unstuck valves :(

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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby Pump me up » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:03 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Pump me up wrote:Flysurfer sweetspot...
Flysurfers won't fit in there - it's full of leaking bladders and unstuck valves :(
Flysurfers actually have a wide range of sweet spots.
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duloid
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Re: Flysurfer speed 3 15m2 and 19m2 sweetspot?

Postby duloid » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:44 am

hey PMU it's an old boring song from you and it's full of shit........

b) slow turning ....... BS .....big Speeds turn little slower, but small 6, 8, 10 turns quick as LEIs
C)inetria ..... 11 kg of air....... ??? I don't know you did you weight the kite and the 3kg of LEI???
ok even if it's true, which is not .. tell me why Flysurfer always stays in the air and the LEIs are floating on the water ... get some reflection of your posts and think before you post them PLEASE

d) bridles ... another bullshit well .....we all know that time to time you lines get tangled ... more or less depend how skilled you are .... never had a problem with that .... saw bunch guys flying LEI strugling with tangled lines, bridles etc. ...............
e) wind dropouts and gear failure .... that's funny that you pick up this problem for foil kites... because it's right opposite ... wind dropouts you can cover with great light wind preformance of foil kites ... so 70 % off all you don't have to do self rescue, because you don't need and if you need a self rescue ..... you just use almost the same technic as rescue with LEI ... + you don't have to worry about air leaks, broken valves .... as inflatables do ...

I can also tell you how many times I saw guys in trouble flying LEIs, or not even flying just crying on the beach when they drove 2 hours to the beach and found the air leak .... or other problem with kite ... waiting for the wind to get ride .....when I was riding ...
walking back when they was not able to ride upwind ...... walking is better then swimming ..
luckly I never experienced that .. because I fly FOILS
you can get in trouble with any kite ..... the lines of LEIs don't break?? how you self resue when you kite got ripped ?? your valve broke ?? or something else happened and kite lost air?? what you do than??

your posts are worth shit .... you are just picking up on some individual fails and making them general ...

please don't pick up on my english ... as you do always when you have nothing to say ..

peace ..

BTW the post with the garbage can was funny...... but the second one is reflection of your mind


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