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 Post subject: Re: Strutlessssss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:32 am 
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alexrider wrote:
Let's admit 7 struts are acceptable. Why 8 wouldn't be? And so on...

That was my point - it could go the other way too. What determines the best number of struts, max or min? :) is it a design limit, a weight issue or an aesthetic?

Gigi;) wrote:
...double skin with too many lines... :nono: :allbegood: :-D

*cough* arcs *cough* :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Strutlessssss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:31 pm 
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Location: Paia, HI
I tried the same strutless kite that Jankie saw in Bali and thought it worked well. My performance impression was that it slowed down wave riding experience forcing me to pump the board more as if I had very little pull from the kite. This gave me the sensation of free surfing more than any other kite I've ever used.

Don't underestimate the performance a lightweight kite to stay in the air no matter what. It's available for a little extra pull when needed and to get back upwind. When wave riding it just hoovers above rider waiting to generate some extra speed to make a section if needed. I'm not saying there is a performance advantage with smaller kites but for light wind, light kites make sense.

The Airush One is probably the lightest 15m and 12m kite on the market. That makes a difference in down the line light air wave riding. Also make a great travel kite. Rolled up size matters when traveling.
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kitesurfbali wrote:
Dude,
I have been flying a 3 struts kite for 3 years and I was very happy.
I think 3 struts are ideal for what they are designed for!
Wainman, Ozone, RRD, now also F-One + more...

I flown a 1 strut kite and I found it very below average!!!

Now take out all the struts and you have a bed sheet behind a leading edge...
Tell me what kind of performance you can get!!!
Come on please be serious...

The kite will fly as I saw it doing it.. That's about it..
Bye Jankie


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 Post subject: Re: Strutlessssss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:33 pm 
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Location: Kite Shop owner in Bali
I don't like to talk about brands...
Specially as someone may think I'm bashing them.
But some of the kites is really better you try before you buy!
I can pack my 3 or 5 struts kite in the same small package..
Weight the kite and see if is really lighter.
What you save on 2 small bladders you pay on an oversize leading edge.

Bye Jankie


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 Post subject: Re: Strutlessssss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:46 pm 
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In Gigi's vid, it seemed to make it clear that the role of the struts is to keep the sail from being dunked and held down by the water - his sail flapped down onto the ground a fair bit. So more struts would be better but with diminishing returns due to weight etc ... also seems that under-pressure kites would be a problem and may explain why so many people here have issues - a lot of the guys here use those electric pumps ...

kitehawaii wrote:
Rolled up size matters when traveling.

*cough* arcs *cough* :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Strutlessssss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:26 pm 
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Location: Miami @ 6" Flat Butter!
Gigi;) wrote:
Anyway, I have couple of designs that should work good.
Video below represents the behavior of one of my designs with deflated struts and a bonus on the end...
@Gigi nice work :thumb:
In my opinion it would would be worthwhile to stabilize the luffings and canopy fluterings
with the addition of 3 light carbon battens.
There was a brand about 10 years ago with that feature.
I have the impression with the curved L.E. bow style it would work and relaunch would be great,
what's your opinion :?:

DrLW


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 Post subject: Re: Strutlessssss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:38 pm 
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@ dr LW and Gigi,

Id need some battens in there for relaunch, but dont use flat battens, use carbon tubes, stiffer and lighter


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 Post subject: Re: Strutlessssss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:48 pm 
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DrLightWind wrote:
Gigi;) wrote:
Anyway, I have couple of designs that should work good.
Video below represents the behavior of one of my designs with deflated struts and a bonus on the end...
@Gigi nice work :thumb:
In my opinion it would would be worthwhile to stabilize the luffings and canopy fluterings
with the addition of 3 light carbon battens.
There was a brand about 10 years ago with that feature.
I have the impression with the curved L.E. bow style it would work and relaunch would be great,
what's your opinion :?:

DrLW


Why a batten or a carbon tubes over strut(s)? Weight to weight does it has an advantage? How do we ensure the batten does not portrude the fabrics (after some time) like we have seen on some old design?

Let's get back to fundamental. Which component on a kite weight most? Answer: Fabrics.

Cutting down on fabrics usage is a good direction ( bladder and air too), but why not lighter fabrics? Is there any? Yes if you can afford it.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutlessssss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:13 pm 
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Quote:
What you save on 2 small bladders you pay on an oversize leading edge.


The Airush One leading edge is huge! Maybe thats a good thing for slowing down the kite if you want a park and ride kite but to me it seems like you will be creating a dead space on the canopy right behind the LE, especially when the kite is at the top of the wind window. Thus losing lift.
I haven't tried it, so maybe the One would actually blow my mind but looking at it from a distance gave me a bad impression.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutlessssss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:14 pm 
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Windtools Booster - do a search to learn the problems.
Strutless works OK deep in the window at high AOA where the canopy remains inflated (like a parachute) but fails at the edge. Much (but not all) can be solved with a high degree of catenary in the TE and a variety of battens (both LE and TE or full length) but the primary strutless advantages of low weight per square area and simplicity is lost.

DrLightWind wrote:
There was a brand about 10 years ago with that feature.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutlessssss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:52 pm 
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there are 2 sort of depowering on a kite.

the first is the kite to rotate around a fixed point...like nopulley bridle, or a C kite.

the second way is to move the entire bride forward to keep tension in all lines, and with this one, even if the extrados flutter, the shape remain OK

the only problem is that this sort of bridle is less reactive. like havoc or nomad.

strutless work good, but the relaunch isn't easier at all.

again, good job gigi !


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