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 Post subject: Re: Bar Bitch
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:10 pm 
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Windrider wrote:
BOGUS! You folks must come from places where the wind variance is minimal. The amount of play on the bar is what you use to tune your kite as you ride. The de-power strap is to make larger scale adjustments to compensate for wind gusts/lulls that are more than just a tad. I use the de-power strap constantly while I am riding for gust/lulls, to depower the kite when I catch a wave or repower when I want to jump, or head back out etc. I use the depower strap a lot. I can do that because it is so easy to use with the ATB design. I could never do that with a BTB cleat setup.

Interesting question, tho: How much do you use the de-power strap when you are riding? I use it a lot because I like my bar position to be in the middle of its range so that I can tune up or down with the bar. If I'm riding with the bar at either extreme, I use the de-power strap to adjust so that the bar is in the middle again.

Second interesting question: Do you have an BTB (below the bar) or ATB (above the bar) depower system?

Third and last question: Do you find that the location of the depower system affects how much you use it for normal riding?

I use it a lot. I have an ATB. The fact that the depower is ATB makes it easy to use, so I use it a lot.


My point is that it is a Trim strap and it is there to adjust the angle of the kite. The wind and kite size are what gives it power. Well when it comes to kiting I guess I'm lucky. I'm short and only have to trim my kite very little. I keep my kites trimmed so I don't have to adjust it to unhook since that is the position my bar is in. I all so adjust my lines after every few sessions so I can keep my trim strap set all the way out.

Our wind is pretty steady as long as it is not off shore or coming from a storm. And most of the time with a little extra driving you can solve the wind direction problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Bar Bitch
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:33 pm 
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Location: World Traveler
have to agree with windrider - not fair to just tell the guy to stop adjusting!

sure some days I never touch it and other days a lot. depends...

yeh this is probably an SS bar. I have to agree that if you reach up without looking you could easily mistake the QR for the trim strap. never done it but had an 'almost' moment first day on the bar. I like other bars better for this reason. Also, some bars are push out release so one is push the other is pull.


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 Post subject: Re: Bar Bitch
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:34 pm 
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Yeah, okay, Joe and PAFF, call it trimming if you prefer. It’s still the same action for the same purpose—adjusting the position of your bar for changing conditions. By the way, where I kite, wind speed changes--sometimes a lot!

It’s not an old SS bar. They are ’09 and ’10 Naish bars, and others. All the BTB setups I’ve seen and used are similar. Joe, what do you mean by “Now my release is on my harness?” Explain please.

Windrider, when riding BTB, I usually depower before I launch because it’s way easier to do before there’s pressure on the lines. After launch, I power-up so the bar is where I want it. When I get out to a wind line, or when the wind picks up, I’m faced with pulling in some line (depowering, trimming, whatever). That’s when the fun starts. With a BTB I tend to wait longer before trimming because I’m reluctant to fight with the cleat and the lousy leverage. When I ride with an ATB, I trim as needed without worry. I just do it, I don’t even think about it so I’m pretty sure I do it more often than with a BTB.

Reinis, I never try to tear the rope out from the cleat. That’d be kind of dumb. Not that I haven’t tried it. Thing is, if I had a cam-cleat instead of a jam-cleat that’d work great. Cam-cleats are designed to release when you pull the line away at an angle, unlike jam-cleats where you’ve got to pull the line straight out to get it loose. On a BTB, the cleat is pretty close to your body, so your arm is bent when pulling the line towards your torso. This adds up to altogether lousy leverage.

If the wind is nuking and the line is really jammed in the cleat, the whole assembly just moves when you pull on the line, leaving it firmly jammed. Yank it all you what, it’s not going to release. Hence, my tendency use the other hand to hold the assy in place as I try to pull the line, in a straight line, out of the cleat, towards my body; hence, my tendency to grab the QR by mistake.

With one hand on the QR resisting the other hand pulling the line, this tends to result in the QR sliding forward causing release, causing this bitch. I find it pretty hard to believe that none of you guys has experienced something similar to the above. Plenty of guys on the beach have.

With my Wainman bars, the jam-cleat is above the bar, so the leverage is much better. Releasing it is usually easy. Sometimes the line does get really jammed in the cleat and you have to jerk it to get it out, but it’s usually reliable and works smoothly. I like this setup.

The Wainman kites don’t need a lot of bar travel to control the angle-of-attack so they do fine with limited bar throw. Other kites need more travel. To get it, mfgs put the depower mechanism below the bar.

So whether or not we prefer ATB, we’re sometimes stuck with BTB. How can we make it better? That’s what I hoped this thread would be about. Not trim v/ depower, not which camp you’re in, ATB v/ BTB, and not real kiters never depower, they just edge harder.

So, does anyone else have any useful ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: Bar Bitch
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 6:56 am
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Location: Kailua, Hawaii, currently riding EH and OR kites (2013 Razor rocks!)
I like the idea of trying a clam cleat. Do any of the bars have one?


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 Post subject: Re: Bar Bitch
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:15 am 
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Location: North Bay, ON, Canada
Kupono, I feel the same way regarding the BTB systems. I am not very comfortable using them and I have also experienced the jamming issue. I think the issue with BTB system is surely the cleat in combination with the poor angle and leverage. It would be nice to see some new development in this area, maybe using Jam cleats or something similar.


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 Post subject: Re: Bar Bitch
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:41 am 
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I wear the ocean rodeo session 2 harness. It has a safety system built into the handle pass leash attachment. Other harnesses have it as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Bar Bitch
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:05 am
Posts: 240
Kupono- this is the bar I was telling you about the other day.

CRUISE CONTROL CC BAR
The Windwing Cruise Control CC bar is a work in progress and ever changing. It is a complicated double-pulley sheeting system for extended range and silky-smooth resistance. The bar stays in place for one-handed and no-handed flying, and reduces rider fatigue
Attachment:
ccbar1.jpg
ccbar1.jpg [ 8.61 KIB | Viewed 392 times ]




It's a rather interesting bar. There are two blocks on the bar, one at the front line attachment and the other below the bar at the chicken loop. This allows you sheet out on the bar while the trim strap stays with the bar. Basically you have an ATB trim strap for ease of use and BTB sheeting range.
I can rig rig one up and show it to you next time there is wind.


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 Post subject: Re: Bar Bitch
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:38 am 
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Joe, that's a pretty cool looking harness. Is it comfy? Good support? How about the leg straps, do you ever use them?

lvel, the CC bar looks really interesting. Don't see how the lower block doesn't stop the bar travel. Love to check it out. Doesn't look like any thru the bar safety line tho.


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 Post subject: Re: Bar Bitch
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:09 am 
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The bar doesn't need through the bar safety as it has a spinning leash setup on it. Personally I would prefer through the bar as it is simpler and there is no leash dangling around. It would require a simple mod.
Basically the best thing to do is look at as many bars as you can and then see which parts you like and order them from companies to make your own custom bar.

I don't see why there aren't any custom bar companies out there, it seems there is a need for them....


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 Post subject: Re: Bar Bitch
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:53 am 
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Kupono wrote:
Joe, that's a pretty cool looking harness. Is it comfy? Good support? How about the leg straps, do you ever use them?


It's really comfortable with good back support. I have never used the leg straps, but I have read that they tend to work better than the diaper style seat harness's out there. I can not truly comment on that since I have never worn a seat harness. Build quality is good only some minor wearing on the harness after 1 season with it. Which is amazing cause I'm really hard on my gear.


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