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New Revolutionary Quick Release?

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Kamikuza
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Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?

Postby Kamikuza » Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:07 am

That big ugly hook was for the micro loop like Naish (?) used to have ... Flysurfer used it on the Infinity bar - almost exact same design - so you could loop the rear lines into it and take a break with the kite on the ground. I'd rather just loop them under my spreader bar though ... hooks :o

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Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?

Postby PAFF » Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:13 am

Toby wrote:
And don't forget, there are still companies who have a pin release on one side of the c-loop, while all others have the push up release.


To avoid the patent.

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Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?

Postby AlexandreBorges » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:49 pm

RickI wrote:
Be sure to checkout the control bar Cabrinha has coming out for 2012, it has some impressive new features. Lots of innovation going on out there which is a good thing for kiters.


Would you give us an example?

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Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?

Postby Rainey » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:16 pm

The pull release could have problems too. If you ever need to release the kite when the lines are slack you could have a problem. Not saying this would happen often.

I like the push release because your body acts as a solid anchor as you push away.

But I guess using the quick release should be second nature no matter which one you have.

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Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?

Postby jkrug » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:53 pm

when you're riding along, you pull the bar in for power, push it away for depower. that IS an industry standard. therefore, pushing away is associated with depower, and a pull-in release is counter-intuitive to that.

twisting, whether ultimately good or bad, would require new training and some time before it too became intuitive. my reflexes are getting slower, not quicker, so for me, no thx.

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Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?

Postby Don Monnot » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:08 pm

Pull to release is a natural instinct. Have you ever seen a rookie think that they're pushing the bar away from them to depower when in fact that have it pulled in to them so hard that there's slack in the CL? One of the old safety systems for climbing a rope included a "let go and push away" concept, and there were fatal accidents using it because the natural instinct was to grab and pull toward you when in a scary situation. For kiting, I suspect there are mitigating factors (might be a lack of tension from the kite as mentioned) that would make a "pull to release" mechanism not as practical. Twist to release? I'm skeptical.

Don

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Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?

Postby SBBeachbum » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:49 pm

Toby wrote:From the numbers they put into the concept and design of this release, they easily can pay Naish 7 USD...

My info is, that the development of this release is the most expensive ever...that's why they came up with this twisting release.

It twists to both sides! And it has been tested with loads of sand.

And don't forget, there are still companies who have a pin release on one side of the c-loop, while all others have the push up release.


If you make claims like that you better back them up with numbers. Otherwise it is just Toby pimping for core.

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Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?

Postby Toby » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:17 pm

I am just sharing parts of my knowledge. the owner told me numbers, but I am not in the position to tell, they can do. Ask them if they want to share it.

haven't read the thread right through yet but I'm guessing the force to activate is somewhat separated from the pressure from the kite ...?


yes, same force every time.

And yes, there are situations (read Rick I's last report) where lines will be slack (kite stalling on shore) and then you need to release with slack lines. Push away is great for that.

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Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?

Postby Larse » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:33 pm

Can't believe some mentions pull release as the best system. You can't pull with slacked lines (I had to use my release today with slacked lines. Made a really bad kiteloop transitions and ended up in my own lines. Released before the lines tightened up around me). You push to depower, you should push to relaese. Same movement is safer, because it becomes automatic. And last but not least, I would release a pull system often, when I unhook and crash, because I pull the kite/chickenloop towards me by grabbing aroung the QR. Many do that... Pull release is very very bad. Way worse thab rhis twisting qr

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Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?

Postby mmunzer » Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:25 pm

Push releases are a great marketing stunt. It is correct that it seems to have become an industry standard, but that doesn't make it safer than other systems.

Paragliding/hanggliding have winch mechanisms where if you don't release in time you die. They have pull releases. I have never seen a push release before kitesurfing.

I would say personally, that if my kids had to go kitesurfing, I would much rather give them a good pull release than one of the multitude of push releases which don't release all the time.

When I started kitesurfing, I had three close calls. One of them was in a situation where I launched a kite in too much wind on a field. It was an early unstable foil which collapsed and opened repeatedly in the middle of the power zone. I was dragged on my stomach through the field towards some rocks. I would not have been able to release a push release in this situation. Another situation was where I was pulled through the water at high speed towards some rocks on the shore, here a push release would have been difficult to use, but a pull release would have been better. In the third situation, my harness fell off and wrapped around my ankle while the kite looped and pulled me into shore. Here no form of quick release would have helped since I could not have reached it. By the way at that time there were no releases of any form on the kites and we made our own snap shackle systems.

I like the idea that some companies are still challenging the push to release concept. I think it is sad to see that there are people who blindly accept the push to release concept without challenging the assumptions behind it. It is even sadder to see people criticise a new concept without trying it first. In general, the kitesurf scene really sucks at accepting any forms of change. Take SLEs for example, they were criticised repeatedly, until cabrinha pushed them hard and made them popular. Take the Delta kite, it was criticised repeatedly, until all the other brands copied it because it works. I can understand that some people don't want to try anything new, but why criticise new things without any background.

/Marc


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