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 Post subject: Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:36 pm 
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All of these mechanism described (push/pull/twist) still have the same fatal flaw: They rely on lighting fast human judgement and reaction times. As long as this is the case, there will continue to be many more fatalities in Kiteboarding.


What ever happened to the company that was developing an automated quick release? The concept was spot on: The quick release could be set at different tensions (beach setting vs. on the water) to automatically release under a certain load. On the beach - any load greater than the riders weight (i.e. lofting/dragging) would trigger release. This product never came to fruition - so I suspect it was rather difficult to engineer.

For the good of the sport, I would love to see the Kite companies collaborate on a developing a truly passive safety system.


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 Post subject: Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:14 pm 
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Quote:
For the good of the sport, I would love to see the Kite companies collaborate on a developing a truly passive safety system.


yes, fully agree to have the same system on all bars. Besides few companies almost all have the push release.

Every company puts money into a "foundation" and they develop and engineer something really good.

But that's what Core did (not passive though)...a lot of money (as the owner told me) was put in and the result was this...for sure it needs testing from more people and then we know where we stand?!?!?!?!


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 Post subject: Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:18 pm 
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Yeah I guess you just unhook in slack lines... get rid of that argument for push releases.

My question is why is pull better in a dragging situation? If you are being dragged down the beach, upside down or what ever, with any release you have to get your hands around the chicken loop area. I don't get why pulling to the side or twisting or pushing would be any better.

I do think in that situation it's difficult to get your hands to what ever release you have instead of just holding on to the bar.

What about some sort of release that is on the bar itself... twist the bar, push a button, who knows.


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 Post subject: Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:39 am 
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Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
I didn't have time to read all the posts, only watched the video and don't speak German so it's possible the below points have already been made and or resolved.

Although our advice is geared toward conditions found in southern California and especially the Los Angeles and Ventura counties area, at Malibu Kitesurfing, when discussing this subject with beginner students during their kiteboarding lessons, we would say:

First, I have to point out that although I was impressed with the CL QR as described below, I was AMAZED at the DANGEROUS MISTAKE of using a spring gated clip IN BACK of the leash QR. Whenever a line becomes snagged on a kiter, it becomes impossible to release the kite and the line must be cut. Spring gated clips such as the one shown not only trap lines very easily since the pressure of a line instantly opens the gate, but also once trapped it is impossible to extricate. They are not as serious a problem when IN FRONT of the kite leash QR because the kite can still be released if necessary.

AS TO THE NEW TWIST TYPE QR:

It would seem to fix the most serious problems associated with push-aways which are:

1. Most have nothing to prevent the bar from being pressed back onto them which then can prevent pushing the necessary 1’. A few things that could do this include a board, kelp, pet, the kiter etc. It may also be possible to get a line wrapped around the kiter which holds the bar back.

2. Many have a gap around CL line that might allow sand or other debris to become wedged and prevent or slow the ability to push it away. Where a kiter is getting dragged forward on land and probably forcing the QR into the ground by being on top of it, the possibility of debris entering is increased.

3. Accidental release. Although this is usually not as serious as a failure to release, should it happen at a particularly bad moment, it can still result in serious accidents and problems. I think the most common way this happens is that the kiter gets dragged into their board but sensitive ones may also release from more common accidental contacts.

As to the action possibly being “less intuitive”, this should not be a problem.

First, it’s questionable as to what action is more “intuitive”. Personally, I think pulling back on stuff is more natural in situations where the problem is that something is pulling you.

More importantly though, QR activation should be made an AUTOMATIC RESPONSE. Once an action is automatic, the question of intuitiveness is not present.

A POSSIBLE PROBLEM however, is that it seems likely that it requires more finger dexterity than a push-away. This could decrease reliable release if the kiter’s primary hand was disabled, perhaps by broken fingers, wrist, arm , dislocated shoulder or being tangled in a line. Perhaps also dexterity lost through numbness caused by cold could prevent or slow activation.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


Last edited by RichardM on Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:49 am 
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Good points Richard, I hadn't considered #1 but of course, now you mention it - it's obvious :) IIRC Slingshot has addressed this with a thicker section on the depower line ...?

Point 3 - the PL Zero7 bar was so loose (damned French silly standard) that knocking it with a board or clothing would cause it to pop off ... happened to me several times, very annoying when you're trying to wade out past the shore break :(

I dunno, would you need more dexterity to clamp and twist than you would to clamp and pull?


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 Post subject: Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:11 am 
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Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
Kamikuza wrote:
Good points Richard, I hadn't considered #1 but of course, now you mention it - it's obvious :) IIRC Slingshot has addressed this with a thicker section on the depower line ...?

Point 3 - the PL Zero7 bar was so loose (damned French silly standard) that knocking it with a board or clothing would cause it to pop off ... happened to me several times, very annoying when you're trying to wade out past the shore break :(

I dunno, would you need more dexterity to clamp and twist than you would to clamp and pull?


Some others fixed problem #1 also. Both Flysurfer and Core (previous) use a stopper in front of the QR. The downside to the stopper is that it uses up 1" of bar throw.

I gained my experience with problem 3 with same QR.

It seems to me that to twist, you MUST use your fingers AND have sufficient grip. However, you stand a reasonable shot at activating at least some pushaways without necessarily gripping.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:37 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:08 pm
Posts: 51
I find it very interesting what they are doing... personally I dont find push to be that intuitive, but it does match up with the "push the bar away to depower". Which i feel is good to have the same two movement. As for pull, i feel like it could be far to easily accidentally activated unless set up as a one side pin movement o something like that....

and in the grand scheme of things, as has been mentioned before. When shit hits the fan are you really going to be fast enough to activate the QR.... just think... when stuff goes wrong kiting and its bad... it goes bad really really fast.... so even after lots of "practice" i dont think i would be able to activate a QR no mater what... push... pull... twist...

I don't know whats best... but i feel like push, despite its drawbacks is best at this point because of the fact that most companies use it and that it matches with the depower movements of the bar.

but too each their own... it will be interesting to see where it goes... although i think there are are biger issue to deal with, such as the price of kites....


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 Post subject: Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:38 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:33 pm
Posts: 910
Location: europe
Kamikuza wrote:
Good points Richard, I hadn't considered #1 but of course, now you mention it - it's obvious :) IIRC Slingshot has addressed this with a thicker section on the depower line ...?

Point 3 - the PL Zero7 bar was so loose (damned French silly standard) that knocking it with a board or clothing would cause it to pop off ... happened to me several times, very annoying when you're trying to wade out past the shore break :(

I dunno, would you need more dexterity to clamp and twist than you would to clamp and pull?


never got a trouble withthe PL zero 07 bar whereas in snowkite or kitesurfing. it might pop off if it s not fully closed tho
the new FS infinity bar 2.0 will comply to the" afnor norm" as well.


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 Post subject: Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:34 am 
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Lucky you, voodoo :lol: one of my bars - my favourite one - the packing whatever under the hat got packed down so it was real sloppy ... you could flick the hat off with your fingers. But that was probably the result of me trying to fix the original problem - of how easy it was to knock the hat off :(


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 Post subject: Re: New Revolutionary Quick Release?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:41 am 
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Location: France
May be I am wrong but I have a bad feeling about this turning QR.

My personnal worst experience with activating my QR was in Forteventura.
I took a 2m high wave (i.e. taller than my head) but like an idiot I did not took time to check it before and the wave closed faster than expected.
Result: I found myself deep in the water with the next waves passing through and the kite dragging me under.

I activated the QR (cabrihnha) to stop beeing drag under water (I also have to activate the lite leach).
Under water it took some time to find the QR (the lines were alternatively loose and tight thanks to the water movement).

Pushing the QR was easy but I have the feeling that rotating in this confused situation (when asking myself when I will be able to grab some air) could have been a bit more chalenging.


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