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 Post subject: Re: Naish 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:06 pm 
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Location: Victoria, Australia./instr+retailer www.krakentours.com
tautologies wrote:

In anycase, the LWR is pretty straight forward, on the kite, take the supplied yellow line start at the blue backline attachment pull the line through the little hole by the attachment, then through the ring on the TE strut, and straight over to the pigtail on the TE 2 strut.

From the bar, attach a line (if you have the LWR line, you can thread the blueline through the guides on the LWR line), attache it to the bar under the floater, and to the red ball on the LWR system on the kite.

:-)


Why not just send him to the Zeeko website and look up the Zeeko ERA system Naish copied :oops: .
At any rate once you use this system you never want to be without it. especially when the kite is down and that 12footer is bearing down. :o


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 Post subject: Re: Naish 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:22 pm 
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Location: Maui - Kiteboarding Mercenary for hire
evan wrote:
Why is FL kiteboarder not posting the official movies but his own ripped movies with spam at the end?


I don't know but he ripped a video of mine like that too... Its not cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Naish 2012
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:27 am 
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Location: Ventura
Just had my first weekend on the 2012 naish 12m park - thought i'd do a review as it would have helped me before i made the investment. Sorry for the essay, trying to be thorough.

Note that I have absolutely no affiliation or brand loyalty with Naish, it's actually the first Naish item I've owned. I'm 150lbs, ride 70% hooked in freestyle (big-air, kiteloops, rolls) with a 132 Xenon laluz, 15% unhooked wakestyle w/ a Cab Custom & LF boots (just trying to learn handle pass), and 15% surf on a ridic old Becker fish.

I decided on the Park because i need light bar pressure due to bad shoulders - after a few hours kiting they typically get very sore. The only way i've been able to keep kiting is through physical therapy and exercise, light bar pressure really helps. I like the feel of C-kites, in particular the power through the turn. However, i also find C-kites bar pressure relatively high and also they seem to be fatiguing when riding in my local spot's typical horror chop and big waves. So basically i'm looking for light bar pressure, power through the turn, but more forgiving and less demanding then a c-kite. Park sounded like the ticket.

Out of the bag, i'm happy with the build quality. Most new kites I've seen in last few years have good build quality, this is no exception. The small inflate nipple is way harder and slower to inflate then the larger Ozone / Cab / LF valves. Two of the struts didn't inflate readily, so i had to investigate by opening the zipper to get to the octopus valve. This was a real pain as the velcro and zipper are stiff and don't turn around the small radius of a strut easily. 5 mins into working with a Naish kite i already hate the octopus system. Couldn't see any kind of problem, so closed up the strut and re-inflated again to see if higher PSI would help. Sure enough they just needed to "break the seal" and at 5 psi they inflated normally. This problem did not occur on following inflates, so seems to be just that first time (phew!).

BAG IS WAAAAY TO SMALL. I mean seriously Naish have you not used this bag before? It must be the same bag as they use for their 6m on Maui. I'll have to get a new bag, kinda annoying. Bar and lines are very good, smoothest emergency release i've used before compared to Slingshot, Ozone, air-rush, Ocean Rodeo, and Caution. The advertised "Ultra-soft Powerflex bar ends" are rock hard, so i'll have to continue being careful not to hit myself when unspinning the bar. Overall i really like the bar, lighter then the slingshot (my previous favorite) and has line organizing bungees.

On the water, first impression is that they weren't kidding when they said the bar pressure is light! Feels very comfortable, just what i wanted. I was worried the light bar pressure would limit my "feel" of the kite, but this was definitely not the case. I could still very easily tell where the kite was and as normal didn't need to spend any extra attention to the kite. The feel is way better then the 2008 10m ocean rodeo rise kite i have, which requires a close eye (this kite also has very low bar pressure and was the only kite i could use when my shoulders started to get sore). Newer Ocean Rodeo models may be better, i haven't tried them. I think my general riding form did make a change with the increase in power through the harness and less on my arms, but it didn't seem like a good or bad thing, just a little different. After riding this kite, my preconception that light bar-pressure relates to not knowing where the kite is was completely changed. I know where this kite is at just as well as heavier bar pressure kites like the 12m Caution Zombie.

At first, the power through the turn was less then i expected, more pivoty then i hoped for (this was from 1:00 to 2:00 according to the wind chart below (which i believe to be mostly accurate)). That being said, i had been flying my 9m RPM all week which has strong power through the turn and just recently flew a few minutes on a 10m SS Fuel borrowed from a friend. At about 2:30, a WmH Big Momma and a pair of 19 or 21m Flysurfer Speeds appeared, it was then that i realized the wind was not nearly as strong as i thought it was... The wind decreased a bit more at 2:45 and The Big Momma was showing me up, so i went to get my 17m Zephyr and had a good time. Since the turning pressure on this giant is so heavy, I can only use the Zephyr kite for 30 - 60 mins before i start to feel my shoulders. At about 4:00 the wind picked up slightly and because of my shoulders i went back for the Park. That was a great decision, the kite really came alive with just a small increase in wind speed. I was much more satisfied with the power through the turn. I think still less then the RPM (hard to tell for sure because comparison isn't size for size) and definetly less then a pure C-Kite, but good enough for me to be very satisfied. It became faster, (obviously) jumped higher, bar pressure remained low, upwind ability was good. The jump is fairly explosive and really takes you up there. Hang-time is less then some LEI kites designed for hangtime (like the OR Rise), but in my opinion this is a good thing. Landings from big rolls (including double backrolls etc.) were soft enough. It's a fast kite for a 12, but it still turns like a big kite. I was nowhere near the upper end of this kite's range, but the jumps were still much higher then expected. I had a blast from 4-7.

I read some people didn't like the low end of the 2011 Park. I wouldn't know as i hadn't tried it, but I can safely say the 2012 does not have an issue with low end. The low end was at least comparable to other kites of its size, probably better then many. It was better then my 12m Caution Zombie. Obviously not even close to a match for the Zephyr or Big Momma, but that's to be expected and by no means can you place the 12m park in the same game as those kites. The Park is way more fun the those behemoths when the wind is strong enough. Haven't come close to the high end of the kite, but it has to be far above 20mph even at my light weight.

On Sunday, I was well powered through the entire session from 3-7 on the 12 park and 132 laluz. Decided the hang time can be what you want it to be depending on where you keep the kite during the jump. Keep it at 12:00 and you stay up there. Keep it down a bit and you get dropped faster and have a hot down-wind style landing.

The swivel on the bar worked well and better then any I've used before, but didn't work on 100% of loops/rolls. Doesn't unspin from double rolls.

Overall i'm happy, the kite is high performance like i hoped it would be. As an added bonus, the range seems to be very good, it's stable, well behaved, and fun. I had two of the longer sessions i've ever had, which says a lot for its comfort.


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Sunday Wind.jpg [ 145.85 KIB | Viewed 1885 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Naish 2012
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:57 am 
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Location: Papua New Guinea
Ok question about the new bar with that fancy swivel on the centre lines. When you release your safety, does it pull on both front lines or just one like the slingshot system?


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 Post subject: Re: Naish 2012
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:06 am 
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Location: Oahu
WildDuke wrote:
Ok question about the new bar with that fancy swivel on the centre lines. When you release your safety, does it pull on both front lines or just one like the slingshot system?


The stock setup pulls just one front line.


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 Post subject: Re: Naish 2012
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:16 am 
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Location: Oahu
Erico: Nice review. Pretty much spot the same opinion I have except I find the bag size ok.

This is the way I roll up the kite:
After deflating, roll from wingtip to the center.I make sure I roll LE from the bend, and keep the LE on top of itself. Once both wing tips are rolled to the center, I check I got the two small battens parallel, put one side on top of the other. Fold three times and the kite slides pretty easily into the bag. Might sound like a lot, but it is pretty much the same way I have rolled up every kite I have owned :-)

Try that way of folding the kite and see what you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Naish 2012
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:17 am 
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Posts: 15
Just an observation but the new harness names... I'm assuming that Robbie an Jake Burton are good friends, it's just that the names 'moto', 'cartel' and 'mission' are the same names used by burton snowboards for boots...

On a different note, has any one tried the skater (without the straps) if so what did they think? I'm 5'7, and alternate between the 5'7 global and 5'8 fish (2010) and ride strapless in all but the nastiest of blown out days and was thinking 5'4 skater... How strong / light is new construction???

And lastly how does the park 2012 compare to 2011? Is there a real difference or is it purely cosmetic???


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 Post subject: Re: Naish 2012
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 3:13 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
2012 Naish Torch test and review by Naish South Africa team rider Steve Bertie-Roberts,



What revelation this kite is.

Every year every new kite gets ‘more pop and hang time’, quicker turning’ etc etc and very year you convince yourself of the truth of all the marketing splab. The Torch range included. So for years the Torch has of course been fettled and fine tuned, but such small changes every year, sometimes the evolution so imperceptible that one wondered if it was simply no longer possible to tweak the world’s best C kite. In fact I don’t even think the 2011 Torch changed besides a massive appearance upgrade over the garish 2010 color scheme..

2012. Wow!!!

This is no longer evolution; this is the re invention of the C kite. At last, a quantum leap you can believe in.

The bag, bar kite and lines all ooze quality. As per previous years the excellent fifth line Shift System is retained.

The most obvious visual change, besides the best ever graphics (no more goblins in suits!!WTF??) is the shifting of the two end struts right to the wing tips. Add this to the stiffer but still narrow leading edge, and you have a super firm and efficient wing, especially at the tips making for instant turning response. The now stiffer canopy is on a par with a bridled kite. This firming up of the profile maintains the integrity of the aerofoil shape leading to a pronounced increase in efficiency and hang time. Glide is phenomenal and second boosts of lift available in mid jump with a quick pull on the bar, like an SLE. All this with no bridle, just the support of Naish’s excellent shift system. No bridle = direct feel.

The kite still has the typical C kite bar pressure. Not too much but still way more than most bridled kites. C kite riders love the intuitive feel afforded by this direct connection to the kite. Bar pressure increases in such a linear smooth fashion. To me this is one of the best reasons for riding a C kite.

All round handling is sublime with no surprises. Kite loops pull hard, but that is the whole idea. Lift is excellent lift as the kite comes round.

Hooked in wave riding is smooth and predictable with great turning response. Depower is not as much as a bridled kite of course, probably around 80% but this is the perfect amount for freestyle and freeride. You do not need more. Significant depower trim adjustment is however necessary on a wave. Thankfully, turning whilst depowered (the achilees heel of previous Torches) is now significantly improved.

No matter that this kite is targeted at the more experienced extreme freestyler, unhooked wave riders etc, the average ‘all terrain’ rider will probably wonder if it is still usable for cruising around, boosting a few jumps, hooked in wave riding etc. Lets get one myth out of the way for ever. C kites are not the vicious unforgiving monsters (goblin in suit), that they used to be 10 years ago. These kites feel more like hybrids in terms of depower and usability BUT retain the bar feel boost of a C. The SLE revolution forced the one or two lone manufacturers like Naish and Slingshot who continued with C kites, to start pursuing usability and safety. This is done. A bridled kite is easier and less demanding for sure, but a kiter of any level can still reap the rewards of these kites.

Where a bridled kite like the Park (2012 not yet tested), will have massive appeal due to its slightly more benign nature delivering foolproof handling, better wind range, depower, and more pivotal turning, the Torch will appeal to those who enjoy massive boost, float, kite loop pull, that ever elusive bar feel. The unbridled direct connection to the kite is what it all about. Everyone is striving for it. ‘C kite feel’ is being claimed all over the place, but there is nothing like the real thing, The 2012 Torch IS the real thing and a whole lot more.

The best for last. The new bar is a work of art. The finish and feel top of the class. Superlight carbon. Depower has been put back where it belongs, above the bar. No fiddly adjustments anymore, this system works flawlessly. The centre line is at last sheathed in clear plastic, awesome silky smooth feel and no more frayed centre lines (and nerves) after long after sunset swims!!

Lastly; the R&D department only just realized in 2011, that they should put a little white plastic ball in the main bladder valve. Now that is a quantum leap. I wonder how many years of exhaustive testing Reo Stevens put into this :-) Well done Naish!


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 Post subject: Re: Naish 2012
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:54 pm 
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Quote:
Lastly; the R&D department only just realized in 2011, that they should put a little white plastic ball in the main bladder valve. Now that is a quantum leap. I wonder how many years of exhaustive testing Reo Stevens put into this Well done Naish!


No no no that's stupid, the ball only hinders the air going in and makes it harder to inflate and as you're using one valve for the whole kite you need the least resistance as possible. No one else uses one way valves on the main bladder for this exact reason!!

Only thing it might stop is the stopper blowing out on hard impacts but I'd rather that than a blown leading edge and bladder.

What reasons are there for a one way valve??????????


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 Post subject: Re: Naish 2012
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:08 pm 
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JGTR wrote:
Quote:
Lastly; the R&D department only just realized in 2011, that they should put a little white plastic ball in the main bladder valve. Now that is a quantum leap. I wonder how many years of exhaustive testing Reo Stevens put into this Well done Naish!


No no no that's stupid, the ball only hinders the air going in and makes it harder to inflate and as you're using one valve for the whole kite you need the least resistance as possible. No one else uses one way valves on the main bladder for this exact reason!!

Only thing it might stop is the stopper blowing out on hard impacts but I'd rather that than a blown leading edge and bladder.

What reasons are there for a one way valve??????????


Soooo much easier...
And by the way I know for sure that both F-One and North use one way valves on their main bladders... where have you been lately...


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