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Conflict with beach user.....you can't please everyone.

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eree
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Re: Conflict with beach user.....you can't please everyone.

Postby eree » Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:35 pm

RichardM wrote:
Toby wrote:...
poacher didn’t say where this happened but assuming it was the US side of the Great Lakes and that there is no official policy or rule stating that kiters have any kind of priority, the boater was EXACTLY CORRECT. And any attitude that infers that any other user should have to yield their right to access in ANY way is EXACTLY the attitude which creates bans.

Assuming that poacher’s account is exactly correct and not slanted at all, poacher made a SERIOUS MISTAKE by telling the guy that he and his family would be in danger by being there. Not only is this a thinly veiled THREAT which could have been morphed into a dangerous escalation of the conflict with substantial potential for the “terrorist” kiters to be involved as defendants in violation of Park rules or laws, but much WORSE is the implication that they will use the inherent DANGERS OF KITING to threaten harm to the boater.

NO KITER SHOULD EVER TRY TO MOTIVATE AN UNCOOPERATIVE NON-KITER TO MOVE BY IMPLYING THAT ANY TYPE OF HARM TO THE NON-KITER MIGHT RESULT FROM KITING ACTIVITY !!! Note that “HARM” includes ANY anxiety as well as physical injury.

A better approach is to just say you need space. If they are the slightest bit annoyed or uncooperative, you should LEAVE THEM ALONE. If that means no kiting, then DON’T. If you don’t like BEING THE ABSOLUTE BOTTOM OF THE FOOD CHAIN REGARDING USE OF THE PUBLIC RESOURCE, your ONLY option is to get the local AUTHORITY to grant you some special use consideration (good luck).

I’m very surprised and disappointed that Toby would condone the above type of threat. If a kiter is such an a$$hole that he thinks it proper to threaten non-kiters, he should tell them he’ll shoot them or rape their daughter – NOT that they’ll be injured due to kiting activity.
POACHER wrote:...
Since you and some other rocket scientists think “we don't always have to be yielding pussys either.”, PLEASE list the reason(s) why not. I have a strong interest in access issues and I’d love to be able convince the people who REALLY matter (authorities) of your dangerous WISHFUL THINKING.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET

i don't see what the fuss is about. in the first post Richard was dead on right.

you don't have right to claim the beach just because your kite has 30meters lines.

in my place if the beach is watched by beachguards, kiters don't have a priority at all. they ride just in the area where they assigned to.

as for the unregulated areas and beaches without the beachguards kiters still yield swimmers. it would be stupid to go to discussions with the other beach users about who has the beach! if this kind of discussions reach the local council you'll be banned for sure.

so best way to deal in this kind of situations is cooperate and keep low profile. on unregulated and overcrowded beaches all the kiters should keep close together in a area of apr 50-100 meters wide and try to make all of kite launches and landings in the same spot in order not to disturb other beach goers. as i noticed swimmers are not so keen to go to lay in the sand in the "kite park" area.

and it is hard to reason some parents with the couple of children on the beach, so really it is worst time and place to describe kiteboarding as dangerous activity to them! enough harm is done by the idiots describing kiteboarding as "extreme" sport for the advertising purposes. despite much more casualties are in the cycling and snowboarding, result is stupid high insurance fees!

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Re: Conflict with beach user.....you can't please everyone.

Postby MehYam » Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:36 pm

POACHER wrote:"You guys don’t own the lake!"
Neither does he.

BWD
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Re: Conflict with beach user.....you can't please everyone.

Postby BWD » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:04 pm

I don't know if anyone said this already but there is an easy way to figure it out that appeals to common sense imho and should be easy to get across especially to fishermen.

The room kiters need (not neccessarily want, but need) is similar to what fishermen casting into surf need. Casting fisherman and kiter both have need for ~100+/- space. Often they can get by with less and possibly they could need more, but that is about the average, again imho.
A fishing boat usually won't anchor 50 ft from casting fishermen, and kiters ought to be able to get the same buffer (at least).
Both kiter and fisherman usually don't cause a problem, but have the potetnial of something that COULD hurt bystanders, on the end of a line.
So maybe if you are lucky enough to talk to beach users that aren't foaming at the mouth yet, the analogy of a fisherman casting might be good -usually it's safe, but there is a need for space, and there is a potential for problems if there is no space, and a need for beach users or swimmmers to be aware of what is going on.

Of course, once people get angry, it's better to sacrifice a session (or a few minutes of one) than a beach I think...

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Re: Conflict with beach user.....you can't please everyone.

Postby Randysea22 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:16 pm

First time poster here :bye: , so this post may not warrant much weight.

I see both sides and this pretty much a trollfest because both sides are equally right, but lines have been crossed and people aren't reading carefully and getting upset by miss-communications.

The OP had every right to ask the boat to move and share the lake, and implying that there may be danger if they stayed there. What wasn't communicated (from what I infer) was that the danger is imposed by if a rare accident were to happen that they may be in the crosshairs of an out of control kite.

RichardM has a point about how we are at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to access. We take up a pretty decent amount of space, which isn't a big deal when in open water, but in an inland lake can cause congestion. Where 3-5 kiters can use a small area safely, 20+ boats with families can also can use the same area if there are no kiters. It sucks, but if a few of those who are miss-guided vengeful drunken bastard of boat owners get annoyed by kiters, the beach authorities may be called in to sort it out. Whats easier to make happy? A ton of boaters or a handful of kiters? The boaters, obviously.

Those rare few disgruntled boaters have to be dealt with delicately to insure it doesn't come to the banning of kiting at that location.

A course that may have been taken by the OP is to explain how rare a good ride-able day is in the summer, and it would be immensely appreciated if you could get some buffer room, as they can always enjoy the lake in multiple conditions, where we only get a few chances where it is perfect. If they guy continues to douche it up then there really isn't anything you can do to change the mind of an thick skulled person. Realize that your life is better than his and he is just trying to make you as miserable as him. Keep your head up.

As a newb of kiting, my input might not be worth anything, but oh well. 8)
Good luck and safe kiting

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Re: Conflict with beach user.....you can't please everyone.

Postby Arcsrule » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:58 pm

Kamikuza wrote:Here we go again :lol:

RichardM - NZ is not the US - I don't think it's even possible to deny public access to the beach ...
And I still think - hierarchy in the right to use public space is utter B.S.
HAHA, YEP THAT'S 10 MINUTES OF MY LIFE I'LL NEVER GET BACK! :rollgrin:

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Re: Conflict with beach user.....you can't please everyone.

Postby JerseyPride » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:57 pm

I didn't read most of this BS so excuse me if i'm repeating anything...

Kites have the right of way over motor boats, so he initially violated that law of the water

While it is public land, either boaters or kiters can use it, not both. And the kites were there first, so to me, that is priority. Thats pretty much the same policy between fishers and surfers. You dont paddle out in front of a fisher, and you dont cast a hook out to a surfer. AND it sounds like there is no other place to kite on the lake, while there are other places to anchor.

Communicating all of this to someone who is unfamiliar with kiting is really up to the group of kiters, and politeness goes a lot way.

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Re: Conflict with beach user.....you can't please everyone.

Postby bay surfer » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:14 pm

When it come to boaters, we dont have much say, Size makes right, 99.9 percent of boaters will give you a beer if you ask them, But with beach use on lake Michigan and the great lakes, I'm not nice anymore, when a land owner ask me to leave or is harassing me, I ask thier name, tell them to leave, Or I call the cops, and will file a restraining order them. Ends up they cant use the beach if I'm there.

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Re: Conflict with beach user.....you can't please everyone.

Postby JBD » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:25 pm

bay surfer wrote:When it come to boaters, we dont have much say, Size makes right, 99.9 percent of boaters will give you a beer if you ask them, But with beach use on lake Michigan and the great lakes, I'm not nice anymore, when a land owner ask me to leave or is harassing me, I ask thier name, tell them to leave, Or I call the cops, and will file a restraining order them. Ends up they cant use the beach if I'm there.

So do you do this while sitting their lawn chair drinking the beer you got from the boater?


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