I also tryed both of the kites with an TT and a race board.
To be honest i m not experienced to racing but i can feel how much power a kite has.

So i think the 11m is the "king" since you can handle it more easy if a gust hits.It really pulls so upwind that i had realy a big problem going downwind with a raceboard.
You just need to got a little more downwind when you do the water start and you can realy catch up the 14m.
Wind was 9 maybe 10 knots.

Sooooooooooooooooo.........
I finally got my Renegade 13M LTD V2.
Took it to Corpus Christi this weekend with some of the local crew, ..about eleven of us.
Saturday wind took some time to build and we got ants in our pants, so everybody rigged while it was still a bit light.
My R13 is my big kite (Mini Infinity) so I pumped it up and grabbed my Epic Oxygen twintip.
I blew past and went 200 yards upwind of the others on my first reach, ended up a quarter mile or maybe half mile upwind of the rest.
This was not a big surprise to me because the Oxygen has been a great tool for lightwind days and has allowed me to NOT buy a monster kite.
The only thing that did surprise me was that one of the kites I blew past was a brand new Flysurfer Speed 15M!
I thought those things were the lightwind kings.
And boy does that Flysurfer turn slow, I would never go back to a big old foil.
I had a Renegade 13M LTD V1 to use while a new batch of V2's were being made.
The V2 is better!!
It has better upper end, I think it has better bottom end but I'm not sure, it moves forward in the light stuff with zero tendency to stall, and it jumps better!!
I am super picky about anything that even suggests a stall, the V1 was good but it had just a bit of hesitation that the R7 and R11 do not have.
The Infinity V1 and Renegade 13M V1 both got the same improvements for V2 and whatever they did, it worked, because it is an improved kite.
The V2 moves forward all the time and behaves beautifully.
Great lightwind kite for me at 175 pounds.

Hello Oldnbroken.
I am very please you like the RENEGADE 13 v2.
Can you tell us what was the average wind when you guys went out kiting?
What about the other guys, what size kites they were using?
Probably the reason you were able to kite on the RENEGADE 13 v2 vs the Flysurfer Speed 15m is because you had enough power on the R13. Plus that R13 v2 moves so fast, that is how it generates all its power compare to the Flysurfer Speed foil kites. Also the OXYGEN board might of been a big help. Do you know what board the other rider who was on the Flysurfer kite was using?
You said that the R13 v2 was the biggest kite you have. Have you ever tried the SCREAMER 14, 12 or even the INFINITY v2? If so can you explain the difference between the the RENEGADE 13 v2 and the SCREAMER 14 or 12?
Thank you for your time.

P.S. This is one of the guys that tried the RENEGADE 13 v2 here in Paros and loved it so much he wanted to buy it. But unfortunately that was the only one I had and could not sell it to him.

I never look at a wind meter and rarely check the forecast, my friends do, so I don't.
But it felt around 12-13 mph when we started and it built to 18-19 mph peak time and then back down to 15 mph as the sun went down.
Nothing really big got rigged, wind was supposed to build to 20 so nobody whipped out monster kites.
Kites were Flysurfer 15M, Kahoonas 13.5M, two C4 11M, Renegade 13M, Best TS 12M, a Slingy Octane ..eventually we had kites down to 10M Vegas and 9.5M Kahoona when the wind kept coming up.
I stayed on the Renegade 13M when the small kites could finally come out and play.
No problem, I just swapped to my Shinn Monk 132X41 when the Oxygen wasn't needed.
It was twintips and a few skims to try to help in the lighter winds, no directionals in that shallow bay.
Some of the twintips were pretty big and some were normal, the skims are obviously wide and flat.
Not sure what was under the Flysurfer.

I've have been on the Infinity V1 twice and it is a powerhouse for me, too much kite in our gusty lakes.
The V1 Infinity drags me around in the gusts a bit, if you use a bar with a long throw, it was better.
I have talked to two people who got on the Infinity V2 and it is much more manageable in the gusts.

I am familiar with the Screamer 14M, I used it as my lightwind kite for several months and found that it turned faster than the monsters and had great power and went upwind very well, but that it was hard to relaunch in really light wind, so it made me ride too carefully, trying not to drop it.
That hinders the screwing around and jumping and dumping the kite and trying new things.
I wanted to get away with as small a kite as possible, and was not sure going down a size was a great idea but I'm tired of monster kites.
So I decided to move to an easy relaunch kite in the Renegade 13M for lightwind and it works.

Some of my local buds fly the Zephyr 17M and Turbine 17M and Infinity 15M, Turbo 14M, Waroo 15M & 17M, Big Mama 15M, Switchblade 16M, Ozone C4 15M, Flysurfer Speed 15M.
My Renegade 13M and Oxygen 135X47 twintip combo holds it's own again all of those kites.

I have flown the Screamer 12M kite and it is a jumping monster
but I have found that for me the R7 / R11 / R13 quiver works better in our gusty lake winds.

I do have a 3G Screamer 10M LTD Edition that is the best of the Screamers for our conditions.
If you want that massive Screamer boost and float, but need a better gusty wind kite than the standard Screamers,
the Screamer LTD is shaped differently so handles gusts better.
It is a little more C shaped than the regular Screamers and I like that shape and feel better.
Turns fast, comes around and climbs really nice, a very fun exciting kite to fly.

Like wind meters in videos, I'm becoming more and more convinced that anecdotal evidence - especially commenting on what other people are observed doing - is just hogwash.

How do you know the other guys were trying to go as hard upwind as you? Were trying to turn the kite as fast as possible? Are as good light-wind riders as you?

Statements I could make based on "observations"... Speed3 21 turns faster than the new Fly. Range of the S3 15 covers 17m to 9m kites. Flysurfer kites go further upwind than any other kite. I'm the best light-wind rider at my spot because I'm heavier and ride just as well in the same low wind...

Speculation, your honor! All I can say for sure is what I've experienced...

Kami- All those variables are always a factor.
I said I was surprised I smoked a brand new Speed 15M, but that I'm used to doing that kind of thing with this kite and board combination, no judgements made about anybody else, just an observation.
No offense to Flysurfer kites, but they surely turn slower than the tube kites on this body of water, that day.
I know every kiter on this little bay Saturday (all from my local crew) and more than one person flew the Speed 15.
I know they were trying to get out of the hole we were in because where we launched it was less than a foot deep and mucky algae crap that stunk, we were trying to get out of this hole and out into the open.
He was moving that kite as fast as it would generate power. I got out of the hole first, no big deal.
The kite I did it with is a good kite, no big deal. I would not fly a foil anymore, no big deal.
Please try to take no offense from my little story, I'm not trying to prove any scientific theory here, just trying to give some feedback about Epic kites to some folks who are reading an Epic thread to maybe hear anecdotal feedback from people who have been on these kites.
They may wonder how they compare to the other stuff that I (or somebody else) have flown or my friends have flown.
Please, no offense.

No offense taken - or meant to be given

Today, I was out on the XB16 and was riding upwind 10-20m more per tack than a 16m Dyno. We both got beaten upwind by a Griffin 14 too many combinations of boards, rider weights etc. Not to mention how much effort they were putting in... which is why I think those kinds of comparisons are misleading. That's just my opinion... I'm more interested in what people say about their own direct experiences

And if you're going to use the S3 15 as a benchmark, y'all should learn how to fly it properly

OnB,
You've got me really interested in the R13 LTD v2. Definitely on my short list now.
I actually find the feedback relative to other kites useful.
Could someone who is a better pilot, or who had a bigger board, or who weighed a few less pounds done as well or better than you on that day? Maybe, probably, who cares.
You were doing well in the light stuff and keeping pretty good company.
I'll be looking for a demo in Hatteras.

I've also heard a lot of good things about the Griffin but not much presence here in the USA.

Tony

I was out on my C4 11m riding my 132 Lalux with Oldnbroken that day.

He forgot to mention he was eating magic pixie dust.

You were consuming the magic pixie dust!! ...I can't handle that stuff.
That's how you flew over to the far side of the bay, where I was.