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beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.

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nikalaitzian
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Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.

Postby nikalaitzian » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:27 pm

Thats tragic!!! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:

I blame 100% the ''killer'' teacher...In the name of profit they go in and teach the most dangerous part of kitetraining (water start) with 4 students!!!You stupid moneyhunter!!!Why didn't you used a knife and you tried to trap the kite with a boat!!!!oh i forgot ...the kite costs money and the lines too...why your students didnt have a knife on them???a proper diving knife ,not the ones on the harnesses cause you have to be very experienced to use it on danger... :angryfire: :angryfire: why you used a leash with the boards????Stupid!!!!

i wish you to rott in jail you smack!!!! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:

i teach also ... never over 2 persons cause they dont pay attention....and in the water start only one!!!

KILLER!!!! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:

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Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.

Postby FredBGG » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:42 pm

This instructor is completely irresponsible.

4 Students learning to get up on their boards all at the same time?????
75kg Rider on an 11m kite with a 140x45cm board on 5 to 6 bft... that is 20 to 30mph...
Hell I'm 105kg and I would be on an 8m kite.....and powered up.
But the instructor puts him onto a surfboard in the afternoon..... still on the 11m kite....and had to depower the trim by 5cm....... ??????
The kite crashes and the "the front and rear lines were symetricaly crossed, he noticed it and i told him , it wasn t a problem, we can fly like that"...... This is just plain crazy... you never fly a kite with crossed lines. Symmetrically crossed lines will become a true hazard if the kite loops. The lines will twisted right where they are crossed and with just one or two loops the safety system will be compromised.....
Also crossed lines are more likely to snag on the trailing edge of the kite.

Another thing.... the students were using a leash....
The victim still had the board and leash attached to him...
"i swam towards him, turned him around, put his surf under him (leash was still on his harness)"

When he was getting dragged he was going under water due to the board being attached to the leash. The leash is most likely what made this accident fatal along with the irresponsible instructor.
The instructor had a boat so there would be no problem for him to retrieve boards for the students if they had trouble dragging back to them.

I know the area an used to windsurf there. When the wind is 5 to 6 bft it is expert conditions or at least intermediate with an appropriately small kite or sail. When the wind is N-W it is on the gusty side as it is blowing offshore. Also it's a lagoon so there is no risk of getting lost at sea if you don't have enough power to get back upwind or you lose your board.

This is NOT A ONE IN A MILLION ACCIDENT. This is the result of an irresponsible instructor.
No mention of a line knife by the instructor, using board leashes in a shallowish lagoon, 4 beginner students in high winds, letting a student fly a kite with crossed front and rear lines... the list is long.
He even did not know the level of the riders...
"i didnt know exactly the abilites of the others but, by what they've said sooner, i had René, few monthes ago, in a partial day with insufficient wind but i didn t remember his level exactly. "
This is just crazy... you do not launch 4 students at the same time without at least knowing their level from personally observing them. Beginners do not know enough about the sport to accurately describe their level.
Last edited by FredBGG on Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.

Postby FredBGG » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:45 pm

nikalaitzian wrote:Thats tragic!!! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:

I blame 100% the ''killer'' teacher...In the name of profit they go in and teach the most dangerous part of kitetraining (water start) with 4 students!!!You stupid moneyhunter!!!Why didn't you used a knife and you tried to trap the kite with a boat!!!!oh i forgot ...the kite costs money and the lines too...why your students didnt have a knife on them???a proper diving knife ,not the ones on the harnesses cause you have to be very experienced to use it on danger... :angryfire: :angryfire: why you used a leash with the boards????Stupid!!!!

i wish you to rott in jail you smack!!!! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:

i teach also ... never over 2 persons cause they dont pay attention....and in the water start only one!!!

KILLER!!!! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:


I glad to see that someone else agrees with me on this.... but I would not quite call him a killer.
That would imply pre meditation.

You are right that greed had a lot to do with this and your comments have more weight as you are an instructor.

Another thing to consider is that while this "killer" instructor was desperately trying to rescue Rene the other three students were totally unsupervised and could have suffered a similar fate. Just imagine 3 beginner students on the overpowered side with no one to help them......
Last edited by FredBGG on Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:39 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.

Postby ChickenTikka » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:50 pm

Someone help me understand what happened:

Rene gets in a death loop. Is getting dragged, but still breathing and skimming across the water.

The instructor tries to use his boat to stop the kite from dragging Rene. Rene ends up dragged under the boat and drowns?

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Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.

Postby FredBGG » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:58 pm

ChickenTikka wrote:Someone help me understand what happened:

Rene gets in a death loop. Is getting dragged, but still breathing and skimming across the water.

The instructor tries to use his boat to stop the kite from dragging Rene. Rene ends up dragged under the boat and drowns?


Rene was 60+ and he was being dragged with his board on a board leash. A board on a leash will drag you under water if your kite starts to loop. He was more than half drowned before the "crazy boat over the lines" antics. He most likely died from drowning induced heart attack. But what really killed him is the instructors irresponsibility.

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Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.

Postby FredBGG » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:21 pm

2 ème jour
RDV à partir de 10 h par petits groupes de 4 ou 5 pour un atelier glisse d’entraînement et positionnement dynamique dans l’eau avec la planche (simulateur).
13h 30’: briefing, préparation du matériel, départ sur le site en bateau pour la séance dans l’eau. (Nage tractée et exercices de puissance directionnelle, waterstart, premiers bords ?...)
Attention : séance longue et intense...


This is from their website....

It basically says that on the second day they take out 4 to 5 students.
They even say it will be a long and intense session.....
So this seems to be standard practice for this outfit....
One instructor to 5 students on their second day.....plain crazy

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Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.

Postby edt » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:21 pm

FredBGG wrote:Rene was 60+ and he was being dragged with his board on a board leash. A board on a leash will drag you under water if your kite starts to loop. He was more than half drowned before the "crazy boat over the lines" antics. He most likely died from drowning induced heart attack. But what really killed him is the instructors irresponsibility.



Eric Pelaprat seems like a good instructor, but I agree leashing the boards was the one thing he did wrong.

http://www.kitesurf.fr/viewpost_140139.html

"Les stagiaires partent dans l’eau avec leurs planches au bout du leash . . ."

Sounds like he deliberately put them all on board leashes.

I don't see anything wrong with the "boat over lines" trick he used tho, since he did catch the looping kite, something I did not think was even possible.

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Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.

Postby Jdizzle » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:26 pm

FredBGG wrote:
nikalaitzian wrote:Thats tragic!!! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:

I blame 100% the ''killer'' teacher...In the name of profit they go in and teach the most dangerous part of kitetraining (water start) with 4 students!!!You stupid moneyhunter!!!Why didn't you used a knife and you tried to trap the kite with a boat!!!!oh i forgot ...the kite costs money and the lines too...why your students didnt have a knife on them???a proper diving knife ,not the ones on the harnesses cause you have to be very experienced to use it on danger... :angryfire: :angryfire: why you used a leash with the boards????Stupid!!!!

i wish you to rott in jail you smack!!!! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:

i teach also ... never over 2 persons cause they dont pay attention....and in the water start only one!!!

KILLER!!!! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:


I glad to see that someone else agrees with me on this.... (your post showed up when I posted mine... we must have been writing at the same time)

You are right that greed had a lot to do with this and your comments have more weight as you are an instructor.

Another thing to consider is that while this "killer" instructor was desperately trying to rescue Rene the other three students were totally unsupervised and could have suffered a similar fate. Just imagine 3 beginner students on the overpowered side with no one to help them......


I do think this death could of easily been prevented, but I think the instructor involved has learnt some harsh lessons and in the most horrific manner, he shouldn't be slammed at this moment in time! I think the kite school is the main culprit for having some seriously dangerous approaches to teaching. Sounds to me like they are all about the money, and don't really take safety too seriously!

They should be shut down and taken to court, as there practices have resulted in a death!

Surely there should be IKO practices set in stone by law?

Teaching seems to be the cause of the vast majority of the fatalities in our sport :nono:

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nikalaitzian
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Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.

Postby nikalaitzian » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:28 pm

Excactly!!! the board with a leash when it dives while it is been pulled by the leash it works like a floating anchor (a safety devise wich is used by small vessels not to get draged by the wind or strong currents!!!!

That greedy son of a bitch killed the poor guy !!!!! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:

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nikalaitzian
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Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.

Postby nikalaitzian » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:32 pm

edt wrote:
FredBGG wrote:Rene was 60+ and he was being dragged with his board on a board leash. A board on a leash will drag you under water if your kite starts to loop. He was more than half drowned before the "crazy boat over the lines" antics. He most likely died from drowning induced heart attack. But what really killed him is the instructors irresponsibility.



Eric Pelaprat seems like a good instructor, but I agree leashing the boards was the one thing he did wrong.

http://www.kitesurf.fr/viewpost_140139.html

"Les stagiaires partent dans l’eau avec leurs planches au bout du leash . . ."

Sounds like he deliberately put them all on board leashes.

I don't see anything wrong with the "boat over lines" trick he used tho, since he did catch the looping kite, something I did not think was even possible.



yeah right..He missed the kite by 50cm and guess what the kite launched again and trapped the poor guy under the boat!!! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: and that nice person didnt used a knife to cut the lines..I cant even imagine that he had a knife and didnt think to use it...OMG there is a KILLER on the loose!!!


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