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 Post subject: Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:32 pm 
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sounds like the bar could have actually got wrapped and stuck around the harness hook , had that happen a fewtimes myself and lucky I was a pretty advanced kiter by the time it happened the first time to me so I was able to recogonize just was going on and got the bar undone by the time the kite started to loop. In my opinion this is one of the most dangerous situations when lines and the bar get around the harness hook.. All instructors while teaching should carry a bear claw incase they as a last resort have to jump on the student and cut the chicken loop. That this happend and the instructor was not carrying a knief makes me sick.. Im ordering a blunt tip serrated bear claw the one that is used for rescue and comes in a sheath that looks like it can be strapped to the harness. not just for myself but for good karma incase i need to help someone someday. hope others are willing to spend a few $ and do the same.


Last edited by jteabird on Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:40 pm 
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Location: Maui
Where would you carry another knife? I like to carry a regular Dakine knife but my harness does not have a pocket. I just put Dakines knife pocket on the webbing of my spreader bar, but feel this is a bad idea. Any other good solutions on where to carry a knife?


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 Post subject: Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:48 pm 
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Location: The Naki
Hmmm... I found the actions of the instructor odd. flying a kite with inverted lines? weird.... using board leashes.... weirder. Using big kites on a windy day? driving a boat over a kite lines? These are all things I would not do and I am not a qualified instructor.

Any way hindsight is a marvelous thing.

In moments of emergency you don't necessarily do the most logical things. It could be that he had a knife and simply forgot to use it in the confusion.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:49 pm 
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rightguard wrote:
Where would you carry another knife? I like to carry a regular Dakine knife but my harness does not have a pocket. I just put Dakines knife pocket on the webbing of my spreader bar, but feel this is a bad idea. Any other good solutions on where to carry a knife?

I will figure that out when the knife gets here.. I will find a place and post some pics.. If i can only carry one knife it will the be the bear claw.. I carry a hook knife also but realize that its not gonna save me if i have to cut liter lines or the chicken loop or save another kiter.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:16 pm 
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Change of subject, but I reckon I could take my Mystic harness clean off in a serious emergency! Can't check for myself, as my harness is at home 75 miles away.

Anyone reckon its possible to simply undo the right strap under load (by pulling the plastic runner) and then pull off the velcro....easy surely?

What do you guys think...could be quicker than cutting lines???

In fact...surely this could be the ultimate safety feature to any harness...AN EMERGENCY RELEASE!

It would have to be impossible to accidentally activate, that would be super shitty...watching your kite and harness fly away :lol: Would be pretty dangerous too...hmmmm just a thought anyway :think:


Last edited by Jdizzle on Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:17 pm 
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rightguard wrote:
Where would you carry another knife? I like to carry a regular Dakine knife but my harness does not have a pocket. I just put Dakines knife pocket on the webbing of my spreader bar, but feel this is a bad idea. Any other good solutions on where to carry a knife?


A wetsuit repair person can stitch on a little pocket to your wetsuit in no time.

They have tape that they can put in that will seal and reinforce the stitching.

I made a little elastic wrist band with a pocket in it and some velcro to keep it from slipping.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:29 pm 
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FredBGG wrote:
...
Only two days after the death of his student and for him it's business as usual :roll:

If it's indeed the case, this is definitely wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:51 pm 
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FredBGG wrote:
The Captain wrote:
Easy to pick out the chain of errors after the fact, isn't it. Kudos to the instructor for the man-up to admit his mistake so that others may learn.


I read the original french write up, I did not see any admission of mistakes.



Fair enough FredBGG. Let me rephrase to "...man-up to share his story so candidly..."

My point is that clearly MANY here disagree with a number of decisions made leading up to this tragedy. It is easy to spot them after the fact. Nobody expects an accident.
As to how the instructor reacted to a situation that was clearly spiralling out of control is not for anyone to judge IMHO. But, we can all take something from this story and make kiting safer for ourselves and others.

For example. What do you do if your QR fails? I was very close to this situation recently when my fifth line failed after an activation close to shore. Had the line not had an installed weak point, i would have been close to shore with an out of control kite and the bar 10m from me. Was I ready for that? Was I ready to pull the leash safety, pull the harness safety or cut the line? Nope.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:52 pm 
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How many schools are teaching 4+ people in the water per instructor at one time? That seems insane to me! Most I have ever seen is 2 at once at that is with radios/gojoe/jetskis/mild 5ft depth lake/mild wind/and additional help standing by with jetski/radio. 1 on 1 is pretty standard around here

Also the whole lines are symmetrically inverted thing is ok... what?!

No knife on the boat? Shoot I would have a machete on board a boat.

And then whats the deal with using a board leash? The only reason why I could come up with for having students use board leashes is so that the instructor doesn't have to chase down the boards. Which makes sense (they would be too busy with 4 people in the water). :roll:

This was an extremely sad story but I can't help but feel this was preventable.


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 Post subject: Re: beginner death in france, detailed by the teacher.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:45 am 
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The Captain wrote:
My point is that clearly MANY here disagree with a number of decisions made leading up to this tragedy. It is easy to spot them after the fact. Nobody expects an accident.
As to how the instructor reacted to a situation that was clearly spiralling out of control is not for anyone to judge IMHO.



I have a problem with his whole teaching standards that obviously put profits before student safety.

You have to expect accidents to happen and take steps to make them less damaging especially where teaching newbies is involved.

So much was done wrong. This accident was just waiting to happen.


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