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2011 Slingshot RPM Range - 12m is not necessarily 12m?

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McAbe
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Re: 2011 Slingshot RPM Range - 12m is not necessarily 12m?

Postby McAbe » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:33 pm

Looks like someone (SS) has been cutting some corners in the research & development process.
I think its important that we can trust the kite company's in this matter, so that we don't necessarily need to try and compare every single kite before buying one.

Bad SS :nono:

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Re: 2011 Slingshot RPM Range - 12m is not necessarily 12m?

Postby William Munney » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:40 pm

McAbe wrote:Looks like someone (SS) has been cutting some corners in the research & development process.
I think its important that we can trust the kite company's in this matter, so that we don't necessarily need to try and compare every single kite before buying one.

Bad SS :nono:


Since the price of a kite increases so much according to size, 10.5 m "12m" kites are dishonestly marketed.

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Re: 2011 Slingshot RPM Range - 12m is not necessarily 12m?

Postby tomatkins » Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:23 pm

Does this pecularity carry over into the stated "wind range chart"? If so, then, that would be the strongest basis for a complaint.

I remember back in 2002 that there were 3 specific ways of stating kite size: (1) actual fabric area, (2) projected area (shadow of the kite on the ground) and (3) size relative to a previously manufactured kite, like the AR 3, comparative power.

I guess that "kite size" measurement still has not been standardized. However, this is the first complaint along those lines, that I have heard in many years.

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Re: 2011 Slingshot RPM Range - 12m is not necessarily 12m?

Postby noody » Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:26 pm

H53Driver wrote:
But what is more important is that the size jumps between a specific model should be proportional.


And that the cut/design of the canopy of each size fits in-between the one below and the one above to give an incremental decrease or increase in performance. Some clever designers change the shape and AR of kites through their range of sizes in order to maintain the feel of that model.

I'm a great fan of Slingshot though it wouldn't be the first time they wriggled and threw a knee-jerk response into the pot. The answer lies with you riders who have the 10 and 12 to decide if there is, or is-not an incremental-increase between the 10 and 12 regardless of the physical sizes and/or the Slingshot explanation which on the face of it sounds dodgy.

Yes, you can have two very similar cloth-sizes in kites where the design-difference means that they can perform quite different to each other, thats not why we buy complete quivers from a single manufacturer. We expect incremental increase in size and performance.

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Re: 2011 Slingshot RPM Range - 12m is not necessarily 12m?

Postby dyyylan » Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:51 pm

Here's their 2011 windrange chart. Looks about right:

Image

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Re: 2011 Slingshot RPM Range - 12m is not necessarily 12m?

Postby noody » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:10 pm

On the basis of that scale the 10 and 12 don't overlap enough to cause concern whereas the 10,9 and 8 do.

Time for a back-to-back test between the 10 and 12.

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Re: 2011 Slingshot RPM Range - 12m is not necessarily 12m?

Postby H53Driver » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:36 pm

dyyylan wrote:Here's their 2011 windrange chart. Looks about right:

Image


With the exception that the chart states 'meters' and it does not seem that the 12 is even close to 12 meters. And what does the double asterix imply? (all values are aproximate I assume)

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Re: 2011 Slingshot RPM Range - 12m is not necessarily 12m?

Postby GraemeF » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:15 pm

My first question is why would anyone buy the entire size range when it's not necessary and sizes are aimed at rider weight as a guide.

My second question would be have you actually measured the kite, stretched it and taken into account foil depth?

Final question and you'll have to excuse my scepticism, but did it not occur that perhaps the ten is actually understated? Given its aimed at a certain range of rider as their main kite.

These kites get used in quivers of two, maximum three, the 12 is the biggest selling kite, ridden satisfactorily for three seasons, no complaints other than low end, then it's a 'windy' kite, never has been billed a light wind performer, so successful every brand has tried to emulate it.

There is also a nine in the line came in as a late arrival as a better downsize for the twelve which was very popular, they didn't bring in the thirteen which would be its counterpart for those who want to ride odd sizes.

I shall have an actual measure tomorrow if we still have any in stock, I don't disbelieve they are close, but I'm sure there's no untoward malpractice intended here, worse case scenario some Typical Chinese scalping, but then no one buys every size, it doesn't actually happen in real life, now does it? Why would you? Sounds like Slinger need to produce a thirteen if folk are that keen.

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Re: 2011 Slingshot RPM Range - 12m is not necessarily 12m?

Postby dyyylan » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:04 pm

GraemeF wrote:My first question is why would anyone buy the entire size range when it's not necessary and sizes are aimed at rider weight as a guide.

My second question would be have you actually measured the kite, stretched it and taken into account foil depth?

Final question and you'll have to excuse my scepticism, but did it not occur that perhaps the ten is actually understated? Given its aimed at a certain range of rider as their main kite.

These kites get used in quivers of two, maximum three, the 12 is the biggest selling kite, ridden satisfactorily for three seasons, no complaints other than low end, then it's a 'windy' kite, never has been billed a light wind performer, so successful every brand has tried to emulate it.

There is also a nine in the line came in as a late arrival as a better downsize for the twelve which was very popular, they didn't bring in the thirteen which would be its counterpart for those who want to ride odd sizes.

I shall have an actual measure tomorrow if we still have any in stock, I don't disbelieve they are close, but I'm sure there's no untoward malpractice intended here, worse case scenario some Typical Chinese scalping, but then no one buys every size, it doesn't actually happen in real life, now does it? Why would you? Sounds like Slinger need to produce a thirteen if folk are that keen.


the problem, I think, is that the other sizes seem to have bottom end on par with other kites.

The 12m would be perfect for me because I only weigh 65kg. I'd probably get a 12 and 8. But after seeing the weak bottom end of the 12, I know I'd never make it through our off season. 14 is too big.

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Re: 2011 Slingshot RPM Range - 12m is not necessarily 12m?

Postby GraemeF » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:23 pm

Folk vary the size of board they use these days , at 65kg you'd be better the 10m.

As a pro rider put it on the uk forum, it proves they haven't just up or down scaled their kites. Big kite sizes need to be made faster and vice versa small sizes, had they just made one then Up and Down scaled it, you get the mess some cheap brands suffer with.

Remember the RPM is a freestyle performance kite capable of winning competitions, they are designed to propel riders of given weights in that sweet wind range, boosting, power loops, unhooked, it's not an average kite.


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