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 Post subject: Stoppers…the Good, Bad and Ugly
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:05 pm 
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Stoppers…the Good, Bad and Ugly


I am starting a thread devoted to "stopper systems"… past, present and future. I would like to have other KF members fill in the gaps, and correct my misunderstandings or errors, for the sake of safety and kitesurfing history…from the (1) 'ON-THE-BAR' systems, using a "Bar cleat" or a "Mini-loop" to the (2) 'ABOVE-THE-BAR' systems, using a "Screw-ball" or a "Death-ball" or a "Pinch-ball" or a "Pop-out" or a "spring-ball" to the (3) 'BELOW-THE-BAR' systems, using a "Solid-leash" or a "Spring-leash".


HISTORY OF THE STOPPER:

The first Stopper I remember seeing was the "Screw-ball" made by Slingshot in 2001. The second Stopper was the "Bar-cleat" one made, about the same time by NSI, where the power line was cleated off on top of the bar. When the 2 line-powerline, made its appearance in 2005, the "Pinch-ball" became popular, and continues to be the industry standard. Then, the "Pop-out" retainer appeared, first as a 'lump' in the powerline, by Naish, and followed by Cabrinha, using a resistance 'slide-guide'. Please correct me on the above, and make additions.

SPECIALTY STOPPERS:

(1) Non-moveable, dead-stop category: Kiters who "throw-down" Old School. They want a solid stopper in order to do tricks like the "Deadman". Many stopper systems, on the market, today, satisfy this group of kiters.

(2) Moveable, low resistance stop category: Kiters who only want a 'partial' stopper, so that they can spin the bar, or occasionally rest their arms, but want the stopper to slide, when a gust hits the kite, or when the kite hits the power zone.

(3) Shock absorbing, automatic reset category: Kiters who suffer from 'tennis elbow', kiters who like LONG sessions, kiters, who are tired of having their powerline being chewed up by pinching and sliding action of the hole in the bar, kiters who use heavy bar pressure kites, kiters, who get tired of manually resetting the stopper ball, after every heavy gust, weak-armed kiters, etc.

(4) Other: ?

………………………..

Let me start by presenting a description and some pictures of couple of projects, that I have been working on, with the hope and intent of developing a type of stopper, which will satisfy the (3) Shock absorbing, auto-reset specialty category, which, at this time does not exist, to my knowledge. The pictures should be self-explanatory, but if there is kiter interest in the subject, then, I will go into more detail, giving specifications for the materials and construction techniques.

In this first post, I will present the "above the bar" "Shock-Reset" device, and in the following post, I will present the "below the bar" system involving a "spring-leash", which I have tested and is now my favorite.

I have been impressed by the creativity of the many KF "tinkerers" , and hope that this group will present their ideas and devices on this thread.

Here is one to ponder and start working on, and improving:


……………………….


Attachments:
2 line recoiled.JPG
2 line recoiled.JPG [ 123.28 KIB | Viewed 1399 times ]
2 line compressed.JPG
2 line compressed.JPG [ 123.48 KIB | Viewed 1399 times ]
1 line compressed.JPG
1 line compressed.JPG [ 125.5 KIB | Viewed 1399 times ]
1 line recoiled.JPG
1 line recoiled.JPG [ 125.33 KIB | Viewed 1399 times ]
1 line spring cover.JPG
1 line spring cover.JPG [ 125.72 KIB | Viewed 1399 times ]
1 line ball.JPG
1 line ball.JPG [ 126.61 KIB | Viewed 1399 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Stoppers…the Good, Bad and Ugly
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Below-the Bar stopper system:

The stopper system, described and pictured below, was added to a "rope-bar" system, which I have used for about 3 years, similar to the Dynabar system, but using a shackle , connected directly to the rope, rather than a 'hook'. This type of a "spring-leash" system may or may not be able to be added to a conventional spreader bar, because the hook and chicken loop may be incompatible. I have not experimented with this, but maybe someone else has, and can report back to us. With the complex and cluttered modern chicken loop, one would have to eliminate all possibility of the spring leash accidently triggering the primary or secondary kite release, along with any tangleing of the chicken loop and leash.

On my next post, I will describe and picture the system, which places the spring device (bungees are used) either internal or external to the bar. I prefer the internal type, but the external type is much easier to construct.

Here are some pictures of my favorite variation of the "Below-the Bar stopper system":


Attachments:
unconnected leash .JPG
unconnected leash .JPG [ 309.44 KIB | Viewed 1360 times ]
connected leash .JPG
connected leash .JPG [ 312.85 KIB | Viewed 1360 times ]
noninterference of leash and powerline shackle .JPG
noninterference of leash and powerline shackle .JPG [ 315.48 KIB | Viewed 1360 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Stoppers…the Good, Bad and Ugly
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:41 pm 
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INTERNAL TO THE BAR spring recoil system:

The stopper system, described and pictured below shows the use of a "solid (non-spring) leash activating the internal automatic retraction system, which consists of bungees, an internal pulley, spectra leader line, and a chain link. The retractable leader line can pull out twice the distance as shown in the picture. I have calibrated and adjusted it to a force of 45 pounds, which is the correct force for a 180 pound kiter. I use this system in conjunction with the spring leash shown in the previous post. This gives me a total of about 8 inches of automatic depower and recoil.

The first 2 pictures show the safety releases on the spring leash and the solid leash...very important items, if something goes wrong, which allow you to disconnect inatantly....safety first!!


Attachments:
spring leash safety  disconnect.JPG
spring leash safety disconnect.JPG [ 122.93 KIB | Viewed 1319 times ]
solid leash safety disconnect.JPG
solid leash safety disconnect.JPG [ 119.61 KIB | Viewed 1319 times ]
internal bar bungee stretched.JPG
internal bar bungee stretched.JPG [ 123.94 KIB | Viewed 1320 times ]
solid leash connected.JPG
solid leash connected.JPG [ 123.24 KIB | Viewed 1320 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Stoppers…the Good, Bad and Ugly
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:38 pm
Posts: 214
Location: Toronto
So this is retirement life eh......Hobby: Designing stopper ball systems...\









































with plumbing hardware.


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 Post subject: Re: Stoppers…the Good, Bad and Ugly
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:32 pm 
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mikewang wrote:
So this is retirement life eh......Hobby: Designing stopper ball systems...\

with plumbing hardware.


Ha, Ha, :D

...and electrical, bicycle, fishing, boating, and you-name-it hardware...and without some great Canadian products, like Tuck Tape, my life would be much more difficult...also, a guy like me needs to live close to a hardware store, and close to the water...liv'n large... on the edge...more to come...stay tuned!

I have found my Canadian friends to be very inventive, and creative... and count on them to help me out!


Attachments:
tuck tape.jpg
tuck tape.jpg [ 116.95 KIB | Viewed 1007 times ]


Last edited by tomatkins on Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Stoppers…the Good, Bad and Ugly
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:12 pm
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Location: Ontario
The good:

Attachment:
of.jpg
of.jpg [ 22.32 KIB | Viewed 1018 times ]


and the bad:

Attachment:
ss.jpg
ss.jpg [ 31.43 KIB | Viewed 1018 times ]


figure you covered the ugly!


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 Post subject: Re: Stoppers…the Good, Bad and Ugly
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:47 pm 
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Starsky wrote:
The good:

Attachment:
of.jpg


and the bad:

Attachment:
ss.jpg


figure you covered the ugly!


:) :D

Wait a minute.... :oops: :( :angryfire:

I do like the "good" stopper. It looks like it would not pinch your fingers, when you are holding the bar and the bar goes up against the stopper. Is that right? If so, then, that would be a better design, to go below the spring, than the half-a-ball, that I have shown in the picture...you could just saw off the tapered peg. Which company makes that stopper?


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 Post subject: Re: Stoppers…the Good, Bad and Ugly
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:56 pm 
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EXTERNAL TO THE BAR and Below-the-Bar-spring recoil system:

The stopper system, described and pictured below shows the use of a "solid (non-spring) leash activating the EXternal automatic retraction system, which consists of bungees, an internal pulley, spectra leader line, which are all contained in 2 lengths of climbing web. The retractable leader line can pull out twice the distance as shown in the picture. I have calibrated and adjusted it to a force of 45 pounds, which is the correct force for a 180 pound kiter. If I use this system in conjunction with the spring leash shown in a previous post. This gives me a total of about 8 inches of automatic depower and recoil.

If someone wants to experiment with this idea of a recoil below the bar system, this is the easiest one to rig up for testing…just tie a ring onto the center of the bar, and tie on the webbing device. That is what I did first to test the concept.

Here are some pictures:

If you cover the knots of the bungee rope, the projections serve as 'horns' for winding the long powerline on this "swimming-drift launcher" bar set-up. I will describe this style of bar and line set-up in a thread, in the future: "Swimming Drift Launch: the Good, Bad and Ugly".


Attachments:
Ext system 1.JPG
Ext system 1.JPG [ 122.8 KIB | Viewed 967 times ]
shacke and pulley line 2.JPG
shacke and pulley line 2.JPG [ 123.11 KIB | Viewed 967 times ]
connected 3.JPG
connected 3.JPG [ 123.54 KIB | Viewed 967 times ]
activated 4 .JPG
activated 4 .JPG [ 124.32 KIB | Viewed 967 times ]
non-interference 5.JPG
non-interference 5.JPG [ 122.29 KIB | Viewed 967 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Stoppers…the Good, Bad and Ugly
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:12 pm
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Location: Ontario
This thread kinda reminds me of the time when a buddy was convinced winter kiting would be more fun on a mono ski. Just had to try and re invent what had already been worked out..... it didn't really pan out!

I think its great to tinker and play with bits and pieces and have done my share of riging up everything from 5th lines before they were commercial to cloning Naish's ill fated free bar double depower thingy, below the bar depower again, before they were on commercial gear, and pulley bars.

All fun in the down time, and with a winter like this I'm surprised I could keep it to replacing my depower line!

It certainly looks like your into it ! I gotta say.... its 2012 and why not just seek out a kite with low bar pressure? Seems like a cleaner solution. Trial and error has already evolved us this:
Attachment:
bws.jpg
bws.jpg [ 13.78 KIB | Viewed 944 times ]

Hard to find much to improve on.


Last edited by Starsky on Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Stoppers…the Good, Bad and Ugly
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 477
Location: Teahupo'o, Tahiti
Anyone find a more elegant solution for a stopper on a single CL. I have one on my Bandit IV and truth be told I have never used it. Adjustable with allen key, very rudimentary. Also the bandit IV has a PU centre line wont take long for the screw to eat through the PU tube. Yet again I've never used it so I don't know.


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