Like many have said, when the time comes, it'll happen. It's a matter of your skills 'peaking' - skill in riding, choosing the correct kite and board for the conditions...

It is interesting that my first experiences going upwind and riding were made easier by using a wide flat board. I found a Slingshot Glide to be an easier learning board. I may have had something to do with 14m conditions and weighing over 200lbs. Easy to get up on plane and an excellent upwind board.

I am not interested in debating the issue, but, my experience contradicts 90% of the advice here.

Disagree. While you'll eventually get upwind with any board, learning in chop is difficult if you're saddled with the large, flat boards that most learners are saddled with.

When I was learning, I found the switch from the big old Cab Prodigy (with tiny fins) that I was borrowing from my instructor to the Mako was something of an epiphany - holding an edge through the chop became easy, and the walk of shame became a thing of the past... well, most of the time.

If you can get access to flatter water, SalmonSlayer is right - big flat boards will help you get upwind. However, BORROW the big flat board if this is the way you want to go. You'll want something smaller after a few sessions.

RTZ - Check your Private Messages.

To Be Clear: I want to stress the following point

True: Perhaps some boards will be more helpful than others

But that shouldn't necessarily be the board that he should go out and buy right now. * (Unless $ is not a consideration)

Buy the board that you will use for years to come.

It is your skill and wind or both that are holding you back now. The benefit of some alternative board will be quickly eroded once you get a good feel for kite and your stance.

Anybody disagree with that?

* Mr. Weetabix points out correctly, in my opinion, that he should borrow the big flat board from a school, some fatty who bought one for flotation, or some poor sucker that bought one while they were learning.

Same experience with me.

Hope I'm not threadjacking......New guy, a few lessons in and working on upwind. I know that water time is the biggest issue for me, gear won't fix much until the technique is there. I have a 140 Best spark I got with a package deal, however, instructor recommended I find (beg, borrow, buy...not pushing a sale on me) a larger board to help the progression. I am considering a mako king for the size initially but then the evolution into mutant style, beginner directional, etc as I progress over the years.

I am 5'8 165 my area is generally 12-25 knots, light to moderate chop, small waves. I'm not foreseeing much in my future major trick wise, just free ride and cruising with maybe a few small jumps down the road (my 140 would be better for that, I know).

Is there any reason the king would be a BAD choice for me? From what I've read (mostly the OR forum...so grain of salt taken) the king is a board that someone can progress with and will be a long term benefit to the quiver. I know the mako has been discussed on this thread already, I'm more curious about the king, specifically. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

at your size, the Best 140 Spark is a big board for you. you don't really need a bigger one, but i have heard great things about the Mako King. it would be a fun board to have anyway. if you can afford 2 boards, the mako would be a fun one to add to your quiver.

It seems that since TT rely on their edge to grip the water (and to a lesser extent their fins), a relatively sharp (thin) square edge seems to work better than thick rounded edges. Although I can't say that I understand the hydrodynamics, I have been told that the rounded edge allows more water to get past it thereby reducing the pressure the board can apply against the water. Without the pressure pushing back against the board, it must have a greater tendency to get pulled downwind.

NOTE that some boards have edges which are needlessly sharp and add more danger than any improved performance is worth.

My first board was a "medium" size which I think was 165cm X something like 38cm. I weighed 185lbs and was riding in 12-20+ MPH and would be decently powered at 15 MPH. I was so unable to go upwind that I built a board with a moveable little "keel" hoping to be more like a sailboat (it didn't work).

More by chance than design, I got a "large" board that was 183 cm X a tapered 39-40cm. Although it had significant rocker, it also had relatively sharp rails and a 5th fin in the heelside middle. I can still remember the first time I could really go upwind cause I was SO happy.

As can be seen from my old boards, boards used to be MUCH bigger and (like all kiting stuff) have been getting smaller and smaller WITHOUT becoming any cheaper. I’ll assume that manufacturers costs have motivated them to reduce the size.

However, it is common knowledge that smaller boards require significantly more power to get on a plane, and somewhat more power to stay on a plane than a larger board of the SAME SHAPE. Therefore, they've substantially increased the width relative to length because greater width allows getting up and planing with less power but still minimizes the amount of material, shipping costs, storage/display space etc.

But the downside to greater width as pertaining to upwind ability is that it is harder to hold an edge and therefore there is a significantly smaller window of range of power where the board can hold a SOLID edge in order to create the pressure required to go happily upwind. The fact that chop etc. also causes a wide board to bounce more than a narrow board also reduces its ability to hold an edge.

These facts suggest that the reasons my 183 seemed to go upwind noticeably well is twofold.
First, since the edge creates the needed pressure, it seems logical that the MORE EDGE THAT IS IN THE WATER the harder it will be to get pulled downwind and the 183 had a LOT of edge in the water. Second, the fact that it was comparatively narrow allowed it to be relatively unaffected by chop etc. thereby staying more securely in the water. Although the 5th fin undoubtedly added some resistance, I think the vast majority is caused by the long sharp edge.

It probably needed more power to get up on than would have been required with a wider board but not too much more once riding.

It should also be noted that beginners generally need NOTICEABLY MORE POWER to go upwind because they don't have the skills which experienced kiters use to create the efficiency that enables going upwind with less power. This being the case, it is easy to see how a beginner in the required reasonably strong wind might have extra difficulty holding the necessary edge with a relatively wide board .

So my question for anyone still awake is, what are the flaws in this theory ? Specifically, that very long, relatively narrow TTs with sharpish square rails should make it easier to go upwind and especially in the case of beginners.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET

Thanks for the reply windrider.

I realize there may be a more "perfect" board for the new guy/ upwind scenario as a single issue but the other abilities of the board (again, from what I've read) making it not just a learn it and leave it board to ditch down the road seems like a good choice for me. I can afford it but don't want to just waste money if there is a quality to it, at my level, that makes it a bad fit. I'd hate to spend that much only to find out later it was too big or advanced.