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 Post subject: Re: Nevin Sayre Accident
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:29 pm 
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I am sorry you were hurt Nevin and wish you all speed in a complete recovery. What happened in your accident? It looks like a bad one which we can try to learn from.

I am aware of one kiting fatality in kiteboarding competition worldwide, that of Silke Gornt in 2002. Many factors were present in her tragic loss key among them the lack of effective quick releases and kite leashes. These devices have been developed and spread through the sport in large measure due to her accident. Procedures, rules and equipment have vastly improved in the last ten years in kiting.

By comparison, how many people have been killed worldwide bicycling in the last decade? It looks like over 7000 between 2000 and 2009 in the USA alone.* Still bicycling is a big part of the Olympics.

*http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811386.pdf

I hope the Olympic Committee reconsiders the expulsion of windsurfing and allows both windsurfing and kiting to occur in the games. It seems Solvig Sayre was a strong prospect for the Olympic windsurfing team. To suddenly lose the ability to complete after all the hard work, dedication and sacrifice to attain such proficiency is an awful thing. I wish both Solvig and yourself the best in getting through this, rapid, complete healing in your case and the ability to compete in windsurfing for Solvig. I believe both sports should be allowed to participate.


EDIT: If this is an old accident Nevin from which you healed from long ago, it would be good to tell us that up front. That along with your involvement with BIC and Olympic related windsurfing sales. Advocating your sport is a reasonable thing but to do so in a biased destructive way, possibly threatening access for BOTH sports is a bad move. I have been involved in many negotiations with authorities in trying to preserve access for kiting and windsurfing. We often are the same to regulators. Please think over your approach to this as you could harm both kiting and inadvertently your sport of windsurfing fairly easily.


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 Post subject: Re: Nevin Sayre Accident
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:57 pm 
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First of all Nevin is a life-long class waterman and always has been a great embassador for sailing and windsurfing. I raced against him a few times WAY back in the days of the original Windsurfer...and he's been dedicated to the wind and water as long as just about anyone I know.

He suffered a terrible injury when I believe his centerline (or chicken loop) failed and he plunged headfirst into a rocky bottom (without a helmet) while doing an inverted maneuvre. Bad luck and bad timing and understandably a traumatic experience, especially if you have children to raise. That thought alone races thru your mind when you are in a life threatening condition and it will no doubt influence your opinions from that day forward. I had a kite session with him a few years ago and discussed his injury, and I know he loves kitesurfing too. The last I know is that he is a dedicated helmet advocate now.

First of all - I have always loved the Olympic Games even with all of the good and bad that can be said about them. I think Nevin's point about the "pipeline" into the Olympics is more important than the nature of/or cause of his injury. Of course there are going to be arguments for and against the recent change that removed windsurfing. I've tried to remain neutral on this subject but to be honest I wish windsurfing had remained a medal sport. IMO windsurfing actually takes a lot more dedication and athleticism than kitesurfing in general. Yes, there are equally amazing athletes who kitesurf. I do think that kitesurfing is more dangerous as a whole than windsurfing...but that is not the only reason I would have voted against it. (Aside from everything said here I wonder if the information that people voted on was clear and whether many of the committee members who voted have much of a clue)

On the contrary I am glad they reintroduced multihulls as a boat class. Now THAT makes perfect sense for so many reasons.

I guess my feeling is that kitesurfing & wsailboarding are both incredible sports, both of which I have "lived and breathed for" for the past 30+years. Perhaps on a sentimental level I would prefer that, since they have been there and just getting established, let Sailboarding remain - and let kitesurfing mature a little more. After all, the racing element of kitesurfing has just gotten going in the last few years - and kiting itsef is all of 15 years young (or thereabouts). The other thing that worries me is the potential kitesurfing "population boom" that may occur which may result in more bans, more crowded launch spots, etc.

I don't mean to sound exclusionary about kiting, but I would prefer that the sport is pursued more so by dedicated waterman than any "joe" that wants to dabble around. I imagine Olympic kitesurfing will be good for commercial interests (and/or it may produce even more competitve challenges - who knows?) I think there will be advancements in equipment and skill level that will trickle down to everyone. But I still have to wonder if being in the Games will be good for the average kitesurfer?

And if they are going to introduce kitesurfing racing into the Games I wold be even more excited to see them done with the foil boards. If they are looking for something exciting to watch I think the foil boards are incredible! Watch this http://vimeo.com/42574035

OK, so in a way I am suggesting something even more esoteric than your "basic" kite race board, but if it's "excitement" they are after I think the foil boards kick ass.


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 Post subject: Re: Nevin Sayre Accident
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:48 pm 
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Completely agree kiteboarding is way safer that it was with improved equipment but there is still no way I would describe it as a safe sport as indicated in the Olympic reports. The thing that makes kiteboarding different from other sports is the erratic nature of the wind, the fact that we are fully attached to that erratic power, that we can get launched 40ft in 1 second with a bar /linewrap/ wingtip/pulleyjam/human error movement of approx 25cm at any given moment, or dragged for 1/2km by an out of control kite - there are not many sports in the world like that.

I thank kiteforum for educating so many about kite accidents and not brushing them under the table especially right now when kiteboarding just became political.

The analogies are crazy too, cycling, skateboarding - those are 2 sports you can go to a shop, buy the product and try yourself. The Olympic reports given to the voters needed to be more respectful towards kiteboarding in my opinion Olympics or no Olympics, and say it how it is. Anyone/ potential voters do not get a realistic picture of kiteboarding reading these documents, especially when it comes to safety.

To try and force/influence kiteboarding together with the different sport of sailing is irresponsible in my view. US sailing's recent press says it chose kiteboarding because it is good for sailing... Crazy times!


Last edited by longwhitecloud on Wed May 23, 2012 11:59 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nevin Sayre Accident
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:39 pm 
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Almost immediatley after posting my reply the thread about a kite ban in Switzerland pops up. In a way this sort of tells me that the sport is not ready yet.

Along the idea of the popularization of kiting for the masses - compare the beach/water/air space required for 100 sailboarders vs 100 kiteboarders - that's one of my biggest fears. I love having space for myself and others and think it is one of the most important considerations for a safe launch/riding area.

As for costs and exclusivity - Kiting equipment may be a bitt cheaper than windsurfing. But the equipment is evolving so fast that it's already been really hard to figure out the rules on equipment. Sailboarding went thru the same growing pains and the result may not have made everyone happy all of the time. But once decisions were made everyone refocused and invested and trained...and now "poof". That just does not seem right...especially when the Olympic Games are built on theconcept of sporting traditions.

As another long established sailboard enthusiast wrote in Sailing Anarchy - all is not lost for sailboarding. Interests and development will flow into other areas perhaps neglected because of the distractions of formula racing. But it will still be disappointing for me to see the years of building up skills and efforts and equipment going out to pasture. So much lost energy IMO.

But maybe this is all just crying over spilled milk...and we will have to see how it goes. But I will be 100% behind Sailbarding to be reintroduced into Olympic Games ASAP.


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 Post subject: Re: Nevin Sayre Accident
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 12:56 am 
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robertovillate wrote:
But I will be 100% behind Sailbarding to be reintroduced into Olympic Games ASAP.


Sure, why not let those Scottish and Irish poets in the Olympics... as long as they are not too long-WINDed. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Nevin Sayre Accident
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:13 am 
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tomatkins wrote:
robertovillate wrote:
But I will be 100% behind Sailbarding to be reintroduced into Olympic Games ASAP.


Sure, why not let those Scottish and Irish poets in the Olympics... as long as they are not too long-WINDed. :D


augh laddie, ye got me thar! :lol:

Suaimhneas Domhain na Toinne Reatha Ort
(Deep peace of the running wave to you)


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 Post subject: Re: Nevin Sayre Accident
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:07 am 
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robertovillate wrote:
He suffered a terrible injury when I believe his centerline (or chicken loop) failed and he plunged headfirst into a rocky bottom (without a helmet) while doing an inverted maneuver.

Bad luck and bad timing .

I had a kite session with him a few years ago and discussed his injury, and I know he loves kitesurfing too. The last I know is that he is a dedicated helmet advocate now.


So you are saying it is an injury from a "few years ago"
And "now" he puts his bloody photo (after windsurfing exclusion decision) to show the DANGERS

If Kevin knew better he should have been on a directional (just like windsurfing) in the deep ocean
There is no bad luck just bad decision to go inverted over rocky bottom even if water was 4ft deep

Deep water is your best friend............... ALWAYS

Please stay off twin tips in the rocky shallows
True windsurfing champions belong on SURFBOARDS directionals

I do crazy high inverted stuff all the time on strapped surfboards in DEEP OCEAN WATER
Your chicken loop probably had to be changed but (NO) you just had to do one more session on it

Terrible accident.......but very much avoidable.......but that is just me (maybe)

................................................. :surf: :sun: ......................................................


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 Post subject: Re: Nevin Sayre Accident
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 4:09 am 
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Quote:
EDIT: If this is an old accident Nevin from which you healed from long ago, it would be good to tell us that up front. That along with your involvement with BIC and Olympic related windsurfing sales. Advocating your sport is a reasonable thing but to do so in a biased destructive way, possibly threatening access for BOTH sports is a bad move. I have been involved in many negotiations with authorities in trying to preserve access for kiting and windsurfing. We often are the same to regulators. Please think over your approach to this as you could harm both kiting and inadvertently your sport of windsurfing fairly easily.
SupaEZ wrote:
So you are saying it is an injury from a "few years ago"
And "now" he puts his bloody photo (after windsurfing exclusion decision) to show the DANGERS

If Kevin knew better he should have been on a directional (just like windsurfing) in the deep ocean
There is no bad luck just bad decision to go inverted over rocky bottom even if water was 4ft deep

Deep water is your best friend............... ALWAYS

Please stay off twin tips in the rocky shallows
True windsurfing champions belong on SURFBOARDS directionals

I do crazy high inverted stuff all the time on strapped surfboards in DEEP OCEAN WATER
Your chicken loop probably had to be changed but (NO) you just had to do one more session on it

Terrible accident.......but very much avoidable.......but that is just me (maybe)
Agreed :thumb:

@Toby,
Please remove this kind thread which is biased propaganda and happened in the past :!:
It's irrelevant for the present and has no value at all for us :nono:
Unless if you want people reminded through that bloody picture,
wearing helmet could save their life.

DrLW


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 Post subject: Re: Nevin Sayre Accident
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 4:30 am 
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Well truth be told, people have been doing things that are questionable (or call it stupid or bad judgement if you want) from day 1 of kiteboarding and people will continue to do them - jumping houses, jumping the rocks, grinding bridges, jumping piers, jumping off rusty crane booms, solo crossing's, going 60mph in 12" of water, etc, etc, etc..including people jumping/tricking in knee deep water (or less) every single day of the week - guaranteed... .and sometimes things go pear shaped.

In the case of Nevin's accident, it might be easy to say "bad judgement, bad gear maintenance" etc. And does it really matter if it happeed yesterday or several years ago? I am sure Nevin, and many others, have learned from accidents (the hard way) and I think if he is trying to get a message across one might be that injury in this sport can be severe, happens fast, and perhaps that the sport in itself seems to promote a lot of risky behaviour. And we all know this.

To say Nevin's opinion is biased is perfectly fair - but what "opinion" isn't biased? Just because he was a sailboarding champ and involved in the industry and has a kid whose dreams of being in the Olympics was just dashed on the rocks that should not silence his opinion...in fact maybe he has as much perspective on it as anyone out there. It's a gruesome photo, but there is certainly nothing obscene nor offensive about his message.


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 Post subject: Re: Nevin Sayre Accident
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 4:55 am 
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In my opinion, It would be more appropriate (and less useful to his agenda) if Nevin had the integrity to honestly disclose his personal and family conflicts of interest.

When did the accident occur?


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