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 Post subject: Aren't we due for a major Kite Innovation?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:33 pm 
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Back in 2006 Cabrinha came out with the Crossbow and everything changed. This led to a couple years of bow kite design tweaking followed by most every company going to an SLE design.

Since then, it doesn't seem like anything has changed significantly other than refinements to design and safety. There are several different SLE shapes out there, some delta, some more C like, and several in the middle, but look up in the sky and you'll find the majority of kites look the same.

Trade-offs between brands seem to be how well they market themselves and if they focus on durability, light vs. heavy bar pressure, surf vs. freestyle, low end, high end, sizing, graphics, etc... Basically, *any* company can fabricate *any* of these features. It just depends where they want to focus for the 2-3 kites in their line-up.

Other than that, no big changes.

So what do you think the next big kite advancement will be and when?


Humor me...It's not windy here. :cool2:


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 Post subject: Re: Aren't we DUE for a major KITE INNOVATION?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:56 pm 
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Surely there has been quite a few innovations. LE shapes are way different, fewer struts, materials.

I think it is a hard to say that one thing is a refinement and one thing an innovation. After all the kites are still inflated, have struts..using mainly the same materials and definitely the same principles as the original c kite...

My point is that I do think there have been a lot of innovation...not all successful, and some very successful. This is not always decided by if design works or not, but that is a different discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Aren't we due for a major Kite Innovation?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:21 pm 
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Double surface inflatable kites. I've also thought that flat wide struts would be better than relatively narrow round ones. I think they would be more aerodynamic and provide better support, maybe leading to less struts required.

On the foil front, we've seen a fair bit of innovation in my opinion but future developments that in my non-expert view would be great include less bridles required and a semi-rigid structure around air intakes to allow them to be smaller and more narrow (similar to what we're seeing in some paragliders).


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 Post subject: Re: Aren't we due for a major Kite Innovation?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:49 pm 
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CaptainArgh wrote:
Back in 2006 Cabrinha came out with the Crossbow and everything changed. This led to a couple years of bow kite design tweaking followed by most every company going to an SLE design.
Since then, it doesn't seem like anything has changed significantly other than refinements to design and safety. There are several different SLE shapes out there, some delta, some more C like, and several in the middle, but look up in the sky and you'll find the majority of kites look the same.
Trade-offs between brands seem to be how well they market themselves and if they focus on durability, light vs. heavy bar pressure, surf vs. freestyle, low end, high end, sizing, graphics, etc... Basically, *any* company can fabricate *any* of these features. It just depends where they want to focus for the 2-3 kites in their line-up.
Other than that, no big changes.
So what do you think the next big kite advancement will be and when?
Humor me...It's not windy here. :cool2:

really funny,
knowing that you are the slingshot's biggest fan, and slingshot's (ex stock exchange broker) designer himself confessed that they buy competitor's kites for "research", why would anybody want to share their ideas with you?

i mean, i gave a couple of ideas here on the forum without so much as the simple acknowledgement, and i promise this will never happen again. so, nice try, Cap


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 Post subject: Re: Aren't we due for a major Kite Innovation?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:03 pm 
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Life_Is_Awesome wrote:
I've also thought that flat wide struts would be better than relatively narrow round ones.

Any pressurized vessel, including a kite tube, adopts a fundamentally circular cross section. Fundamental dynamics. A way around that would be with with some crazy internal cross bracing, but that would be incompatible with bladders.

Same reason the pressurized part of an aircraft fuselage is typically circular in section.

Cheers,
James


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 Post subject: Re: Aren't we due for a major Kite Innovation?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:13 pm 
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eree wrote:
CaptainArgh wrote:
Back in 2006 Cabrinha came out with the Crossbow and everything changed. This led to a couple years of bow kite design tweaking followed by most every company going to an SLE design.
Since then, it doesn't seem like anything has changed significantly other than refinements to design and safety. There are several different SLE shapes out there, some delta, some more C like, and several in the middle, but look up in the sky and you'll find the majority of kites look the same.
Trade-offs between brands seem to be how well they market themselves and if they focus on durability, light vs. heavy bar pressure, surf vs. freestyle, low end, high end, sizing, graphics, etc... Basically, *any* company can fabricate *any* of these features. It just depends where they want to focus for the 2-3 kites in their line-up.
Other than that, no big changes.
So what do you think the next big kite advancement will be and when?
Humor me...It's not windy here. :cool2:

really funny,
knowing that you are the slingshot's biggest fan, and slingshot's (ex stock exchange broker) designer himself confessed that they buy competitor's kites for "research", why would anybody want to share their ideas with you?

i mean, i gave a couple of ideas here on the forum without so much as the simple acknowledgement, and i promise this will never happen again. so, nice try, Cap


I think all major brands probably purchase other brands gear for research. What's wrong with that, as long as they aren't making an exact replica? Why wouldn't you want to know what other peoples weak and strong points are? Also I think it's a great idea for people who work in finance to quit destroying the worlds wealth and start building me toys, just for the record.

As to innovation - what about some form of energy storage? NASA would be building a turbine in with reversible pitch so that you could store the energy you are throwing the bar to shed when the kite goes through the power zone, and then reverse pitch to give you lift.

No kite company is going to do that of course - too complicated. But what about elastic properties in the wing or bridles that are also a form of energy storage? No firm ideas about where or how, just saying that there are times you are trying to shed power and times you want it back.


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 Post subject: Re: Aren't we due for a major Kite Innovation?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:34 pm 
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http://www.pbase.com/image/103580172

Stored power in a kite. Simply add some form of steering and then simply add some form of reverse power.

That's as many of my brilliant ideas that you weasels are going to get out of me until I receive my free prototype. Nice try, Cap.


Last edited by geopeck on Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aren't we due for a major Kite Innovation?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:35 pm 
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To me equipment keeps getting better and better at an acceptable rate. Every year the kites I ride seem to improve. There are very many different shapes of kites as you highlight. Also the variety of twin tips has grown alot, tt's made to ride with boots also and most companies now have many different surfboards you can choose from made especifically for kiting. Enjoy what you have now IMHO :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Aren't we due for a major Kite Innovation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:02 am 
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We are due for something new that's for sure. You can only tinker with variants on specific shapes for so long before a new paradigm in required.

The one area that has really been lacking is materials technology. There really has been absolutely nothing done in that area since BEST introduced Cuben. I'm sure there's a perfectly good, stiff, light and strong monofilm type material out there somewhere which is airtight, waterproof and just waiting to be used. Make it radio frequency weldable and that'll be a real innovation. It'll be a hell of a cost to tool up production to use it though and it would have to exist already as no fabric manufacturer would be interested in the volume kiting has to offer- unless we all used it.

Maybe we are due a change in control systems, the four line bar has remained remarkably unchanged since day 1.

Whatever it is I can't wait for it to arrive.


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 Post subject: Re: Aren't we due for a major Kite Innovation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:23 am 
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How about a foil kite that has sealed bonded seams instead of sewing, so it is airtight and can be pumped to a high pressure. Or, maybe a kite that comes off a large loom as one piece with drop stitches through it (like the inflatable SUP's or those self inflating camping mats.)

Shaped weaving is improving rapidly, so expect shaping of all kite bits.


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