Sarc like ya wax idea. Jdizzle you seem to have a bone to pick fair enough. I wouldn't say the fuel is a better kite, it is different. The fuel is a true C, while the Vegas has not of hybrid mixed in and a very different feel due to the fifth. The fuel may be superior to a rider that suites the raw c feel and power of a true C.

I just find peoples brand loyalty a little annoying, I'm not loyal to any brand, but refuse to be raped by North or Cabrinha, what extra are they offering us for the money...answer = nothing! Brand loyalty drives up prices across the board!

I don't understand why anyone would buy an average carbon board for £860? You hit a hard object with carbon fibre and its ruined beyond repair... UTTER CRAZYNESS!

i'll add my .02 as a north user

love the kites - fuses

hate the bar- so much so i use different bars on it now.

that center hole on the 2011 quad bar was narrow and sharp w/ no flair out- would eat thru depower ropes. mine were lasting about 10 sessions, and then changing the the rope w/ the stupid tap hammer setup was a pita.

besides the lines are weak as crap. ive snapped 3x safety lines(not so safe watching your kite flying down the beach at families), 2 of the white load line in on the front lines before the Y-split, and last time i used the bar snapped 3 flying lines at once.

ive used a fair amount of different bars since kiting in 2004 and by far north's bar/lines the most hassle/easily broken/expensive and overall shortest lifespan

im done w/ north bars but i love the kite

Just my personal thoughts on some of these things:

1. I have always agreed that changing the depower line on our bars is annoying. There will be several improvements to the 2013 bar to address the various issues involving wear and replacement of depower lines. All that being said, I have over a dozen bars in my demo quiver that all get used hundreds of times over the course of a year and have had to replace my share of depower lines in the last few years and have always been able to make it work. If your U-pin is frozen, you may have a warranty situation. Bring it in to or contact your dealer about that. If you try to force it and end up cracking the roto-head, it will be more difficult to get a warranty approval after-the-fact.

2. We have looked at using a rubber sheathing like Cabrinha and some other manufacturers use and have always rejected it for several reasons: A. The line does still wear (though admittedly more slowly), but you are unable to see the wear, so you are less likely to notice and replace a wearing line before it snaps unexpectedly. And B. you lose a lot of the feeling of the kite as the bar tends to stick to the rubber sheathing, plus it makes it difficult to sheet and steer simultaneously. Many people who fly our kites do so specifically because of the feeling that a direct connection kite has and they have vehemently requested that we not go to the rubber sheathing as you lose a significant amount of that feeling.

3. Just to clarify some misinformation, as there are some trolls on here spreading it: A. Slingshot Fuel 9m off SS website is $1,749 complete. Vegas 9m complete at any retailer site (we don't sell direct) is $1,759. The Vegas is $10 more.

B. Our 4-line bar is as interchangeable as anyone else's. Many bars have the front lines "Y" at different lengths. Ours "Y"s at 5m away from the bar, that's 1/5 of the way up. It does so because that is the length the bar needs to travel in order to make our 2-front-line safety work on all of our kites. If you use a bar that "Y"s 1m from the bar, you will need to pull about half an inch of depower to tune the kite and it will fly just fine, however I cannot guarantee that the safety will work. I believe that every single brand will tell you about the same thing, something along the lines of, "any 4-line bar with all lines the same length should work, but we cannot guarantee the safety will be compatible."

And C: as to carbon fiber breaking when you hit anything solid... I have owned 3 bikes in the last 4 years, and all are full carbon frames. I throw it (and myself) into solid objects (trees, rocks, dirt) constantly. I have broken derailleurs, derailleur hangers, forks, shocks, chainrings, pedals, cranks, wrists, a thumb, and many other body/bike parts, but have never damaged a frame (Can I get an Amen for Ibis?). On top of that our carbon boards have rocked for the past 3 years. People who say carbon is too fragile are either uninformed or straight-up luddites. And the difference in performance is immediately obvious and I have received only insanely positive feedback on the carbon boards during my demo tours.

Again, these are just some personal thoughts, nothing official from North, just wanted to throw it out here.

-Dan

Dan,

Thanks for your input. I bought my bar from an online retailer therefore I cannot just bring it in for a warranty. What if I email north?
The rotohead only crack from prying with a screwdriver not from hitting with a hammer. Like I said in my OP I have changed many depower ropes before and never has it taken more than 30mins with other brands but the north design is just flawed. Clearly two metal pieces exposed to a saltwater environment are going to rust/fuse.

Anyway I only started this post just to highlight what I see as a major design flaw. Apart from that I really like the bar and think that along with the naish shift (2012) bar it is the best and safest. The lines are great quality and don't tangle easily.

In the end I just put a switch kites chicken loop on and it works perfectly. The switch one is not as refined as the north loop but its is perfectly funcional with the fifth and being bigger is easier to unhook and if I need to replace the line again it is much easier.

Thank you Dan for stepping in......and clearing this up

And to think i was called a PITA for saying just what you just said

There is only one kite that you cannot interchange the loaded 5 line bar design...and it is the Rebel

The "Y" is 1/2 of the way up (12.5m) plus distance to bar for a total of 13.2m (approx)

I have the Core Riot XR2LW 19M and the "Y" from bar is 4.7m..for the virtual 5th safety bar travel

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I'd also love North Kites, if only Dan didn't charge $190 for two fins.

This is complete BS! Just try any Ozone kite with the PU de-power... and it will out smooth the crap out of any North kite on the market!

Regarding the rip off £860 board, nothing you can say in the world can justify that price! I've demoed the Select, and it paled in comparison to my Shinn Monk. There is nothing special about carbon boards. Shinn and Xenon boards are unbeatable right now...you can keep your overpriced, carbon junk

Bar systems are all overpriced and many are over-engineered and still shitty.
I think somebody should be in the bar business on their own and really concentrate on making a super duper great bar that will blow everybody else out of the water.
Then the kite companies will have to standardize their kite designs to be compatible with this super popular awesome bar.
Then we can get some design and safety standard across the kite industry, for bar and release safety systems.
I've played with bars that do run smooth with the PU covered center lines, and some that don't.
North gear is expensive and I don't see a tangible reason other than their company size, but I feel the same way about three/four other brands too. I feel most kite gear is over priced.
I think the North bar is a good bar but not awesomely great.
Never had a bar that I was completely excited about through and through.
Just broke something on a bar again yesterday.
I fixed the stock donkey dick on my Switch bar because it was designed wrong (too narrow a tube diameter) to begin with, ..and my add on PU over-tube cracked in two yesterday.
Will fix it again tomorrow.
Smoothing out the bar center hole with some very fine sandpaper does help some of the forged center pieces that are not finished well, my Switch needed smoothing and now it is wearing center lines a lot slower.
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And I agree about the Shinn boards.

Not that I will take such a strong tone as jdizzle but I will support the fact that rubber sheathing is smoother and does not "stick to the rubber sheathing" I've heard this excuse before and im afraid it is getting a very tired excuse and quite frankly does not match my emperical evidence. also the direct fell is due to no pulleys involved including with the rebel a fifth line, has nothing whatsoever to do with the depower rope. ?? I do see the point about not seeing the wear before it breaks.

Also agree the shinn monk is unbelievable. I cannot break the rail with as much loading as I can muster. Just the right amount of ridigity through the core with some flex for a smooth ride, no spray and the flex runs all the way through the board on the middle axis. Very good machine. Not sure about the north boards, wasn't interested.

Kites awesome, right up there with the best three on the market for quality. Bar not. Let's see the 2013 though