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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:03 pm
Posts: 24
mark van haze wrote:
How does a company like switch make a profit
Easy, because the cost of a bar is no where near what the big brands want you to believe. You dont really think they are making a loss, do you?


Also consider that a distributor and a local dealer hasn't made a profit out of what the consumer has paid.

Add those two people into the equation and the switch bar is retailing for $550!


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Posts: 1400
still no bar and line company... - needs to be one - come on someone


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:07 am
Posts: 59
When it comes to numbers. VAT is in most countries between 15 and 25%... probably around 20% on average. So you are paying out of 450 Eur to the state 90 Eur in taxes just for buying the bar.

Brand sells a bar to the national distributor may be for 190 Eur plus VAT. Then distributor and shop put on the top their margins plus VAT and here You go - 450.

So there is not so much difference in what a brand selling direct and brand selling through retailers is making on the bar in the end...

And to the North haters:
yes, bar is not cheap, but has perfectly working QR, which You can set up in suicide, and still release it if needed, unlike some other brands who charge same for piece of velcro or some plastic thing which will get jammed with few grains of sand... and you have to reclip leash between different points to change between the modes...
you can adjust bar size and length of backlines now with North 2013 even while flying kite... while some companies sell You for same money fixed length bars so you have to buy more of them or fly 5m on the same bar like 12m, and you have to walk from Your bar to kite to adjust back lines length...
with North You can set length of bar throw, and amount of depower on the trim strap, which You cannot with most bars even if You pay same...
you have perfectly working below the bar swivel to untangle your lines, while some brands still use above the bar,non-functional ones...
... of course, everything is matter of personal preference, but if you compare features with other brands, i think it is pretty clear.

If somebody will make a comparable quality and features bar for half price, there is no discussion though what I will buy...


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:16 pm
Posts: 57
300,00 $ for a bow kite... Imagine the cost price for the bar...


http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/w ... 2900-.html


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:07 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:33 pm
Posts: 57
AT that price does the 2013 bar come with a bag of replacement parts like some other brands?? because so far i have replaced 2x depower line/straps, red safety line, and white center line?(to the Y) on both of my 2010 bars, 1 line snapped and floats are split to shit..i wouldn't have minded so much if i used them everyday or even at lot..but i dont...my wainman bar is 6 mths newer has had the same if not more use due to light wind and apart from red lines faded in colour the bar is perfect...Wainmam even give you a spare depower strap and chicken loop for FREE even though their depower is covered in a plastic sleeve.

when i replaced 1 NORTH bars depower strap i fed it through a 10mm /3/8" clear plastic fuel/water pipe to see if it would work ok and save wear..it did work and the red safety line slid freely as it should..the only draw back was you couldn't then adjust the throw of the bar if needed and i think i would have to drill the holes bigger on the stopper ball for it to work but i abandoned it because the wind was picking up! .....i did this sitting in a bar by the beach with a beer...is that classed as R&D..if so i would like to charge NORTH for this post and all my hard work!!

NORTH know the depower lines wear fast..for high price why not give a spare for free
i also noticed the red release(on the video) of the QR is the same transparent colour as the 2011 bar...so is that old unused stock from 2011 but all part of the new redesigned 2013 bar and price??

the bar does look good and i like the them for their simplicity but would not want to pay that price then have to pay NORTH prices for replacement parts 6 months down the line...


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:20 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:03 pm
Posts: 409
ID wrote:
people this discussion is getting bit stupid, no? have you gone mad? hahahahaha

the amount of hate indicates some serious frustration here...

everyone has choice... depending on the budget and preference in the end...

yes, equipment is bit overpriced... but you do not need to get hysterical and pour down hate on others, whether it is brand or person on the forum, right? if company offers a product, and decides to charge a certain price for it, they are free to do so, and you as a potential client are free to buy or not... in the end, this is luxury product... it is not like they are trying to rip you off selling drinking water, oxygen, or medicine against cancer...

compare manufacturing/development/marketing costs of other products, and prices you happily pay for them...

if you think you can make better bars cheaper, then set up a company and do it... you will make shitloads of money...

if you cant afford 450 eur bar, then use older second hand bar in reasonable condition and refit it with few new parts if needed... 2010 bar was perfect in 2010, and since then no revolutionary design change was invented... not everybody is driving latest brand new top line model of BMW, so why should everybody be able to afford latest North bar?

anyway, if you pay 450 for your bar in you the shop, manufacturer gets only around 200 or bit more out of this, and there are other costs, than just r&d and manufacturing in the play... marketing, sponsored riders and so on... of course you are paying for this when you buy a product, or where do you think money for this comes from?

there are some brands which only sell direct, and they are cheaper...
and you can get more than half-price deals on second hand equipment in great condition...

or make your own bar, not that you have to do it from scratch, and prototype moulds and so on... just use parts from bars somebody may be throwing out or giving away, or you can buy cheap...
this way you can make your ideal bar...

in the end this is not a rocket science. this is what surprises me me, that otherwise intelligent appearing people sometimes switch their brains off and seem to lack plain common sense when it comes to such simple things, like trimming backlines, changing depower rope, or any simple adaptation/adjustment of their bar for a different conditions or kite...

bar is a stick, with few pieces of ropes and few simple mechanical parts... and there is few simple guidelines to follow, so everything is functional and safe... if you understand basic principles behind kiting, and you are bit handy, then you have no problem...

go to any third world country kite spot, and you will see kids, who have nothing, throwing insane tricks on whatever old bar, kite, board they can get their hands on and having just pure fun...
and even if they cannot read or write, they have enough common sense and invention, to fix and adapt these different bits and pieces together, so they can ride and have fun...

or realize, that while you worried that the price of the 2013 bar you must have because your 2012 is not goood enough anymore rose by 30 euros, there is every second child dying from malnutrition...


Stop being such a pussy, it seems you have your head firmly up North's ass and are trying to justify your purchase?

Anyone who is serious about unhooking will not be using the stupid suicide attachment on the North bar, it's complete crap, just gets in the way every time you want to hook back in. I used the 2013 North bar yesterday, and there is nothing special about it AT ALL!

In my opinion, Ozone makes a much better bar. Its more durable, has a better spinner, the release works 100% OK. I really cannot see why Ozone are even bothering making a new bulky push away system? I really hope that they will continue to sell the old model :( The only improvement needed is a reduction in the bars diameter, and they will have a bar that is perfect, END OF!

It's girls like you who push up the price of products, always wanting some new crappy features on your bar!

There is nothing that can justify the yearly price hike that ALL of the top brands keep pulling on us! Remember, these bars are not being re-designed from scratch each year, it's only minuscule, so called improvements which are added. People keep saying....oh but all the testing and production costs...blah...blah..blah! Can you remember doing tensile and compressive load testing in physics AT SCHOOL? These tests cost bugger all to carry out, and the companies already have their production facilities in place.

I'm so sick of people trying to justify yearly price hikes, when they know nothing at all about engineering or production :roll:

Oh, I think a little more goes into designing a BMW than a bar with a hole in it, some strings, and a few twiddly bits here and there :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:25 am 
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Frequent Poster

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:36 pm
Posts: 220
Jdizzle wrote:
ID wrote:
people this discussion is getting bit stupid, no? have you gone mad? hahahahaha

the amount of hate indicates some serious frustration here...

everyone has choice... depending on the budget and preference in the end...

yes, equipment is bit overpriced... but you do not need to get hysterical and pour down hate on others, whether it is brand or person on the forum, right? if company offers a product, and decides to charge a certain price for it, they are free to do so, and you as a potential client are free to buy or not... in the end, this is luxury product... it is not like they are trying to rip you off selling drinking water, oxygen, or medicine against cancer...

compare manufacturing/development/marketing costs of other products, and prices you happily pay for them...

if you think you can make better bars cheaper, then set up a company and do it... you will make shitloads of money...

if you cant afford 450 eur bar, then use older second hand bar in reasonable condition and refit it with few new parts if needed... 2010 bar was perfect in 2010, and since then no revolutionary design change was invented... not everybody is driving latest brand new top line model of BMW, so why should everybody be able to afford latest North bar?

anyway, if you pay 450 for your bar in you the shop, manufacturer gets only around 200 or bit more out of this, and there are other costs, than just r&d and manufacturing in the play... marketing, sponsored riders and so on... of course you are paying for this when you buy a product, or where do you think money for this comes from?

there are some brands which only sell direct, and they are cheaper...
and you can get more than half-price deals on second hand equipment in great condition...

or make your own bar, not that you have to do it from scratch, and prototype moulds and so on... just use parts from bars somebody may be throwing out or giving away, or you can buy cheap...
this way you can make your ideal bar...

in the end this is not a rocket science. this is what surprises me me, that otherwise intelligent appearing people sometimes switch their brains off and seem to lack plain common sense when it comes to such simple things, like trimming backlines, changing depower rope, or any simple adaptation/adjustment of their bar for a different conditions or kite...

bar is a stick, with few pieces of ropes and few simple mechanical parts... and there is few simple guidelines to follow, so everything is functional and safe... if you understand basic principles behind kiting, and you are bit handy, then you have no problem...

go to any third world country kite spot, and you will see kids, who have nothing, throwing insane tricks on whatever old bar, kite, board they can get their hands on and having just pure fun...
and even if they cannot read or write, they have enough common sense and invention, to fix and adapt these different bits and pieces together, so they can ride and have fun...

or realize, that while you worried that the price of the 2013 bar you must have because your 2012 is not goood enough anymore rose by 30 euros, there is every second child dying from malnutrition...


Stop being such a pussy, it seems you have your head firmly up North's ass and are trying to justify your purchase?

Anyone who is serious about unhooking will not be using the stupid suicide attachment on the North bar, it's complete crap, just gets in the way every time you want to hook back in. I used the 2013 North bar yesterday, and there is nothing special about it AT ALL!

In my opinion, Ozone makes a much better bar. Its more durable, has a better spinner, the release works 100% OK. I really cannot see why Ozone are even bothering making a new bulky push away system? I really hope that they will continue to sell the old model :( The only improvement needed is a reduction in the bars diameter, and they will have a bar that is perfect, END OF!

It's girls like you who push up the price of products, always wanting some new crappy features on your bar!

There is nothing that can justify the yearly price hike that ALL of the top brands keep pulling on us! Remember, these bars are not being re-designed from scratch each year, it's only minuscule, so called improvements which are added. People keep saying....oh but all the testing and production costs...blah...blah..blah! Can you remember doing tensile and compressive load testing in physics AT SCHOOL? These tests cost bugger all to carry out, and the companies already have their production facilities in place.

I'm so sick of people trying to justify yearly price hikes, when they know nothing at all about engineering or production :roll:

Oh, I think a little more goes into designing a BMW than a bar with a hole in it, some strings, and a few twiddly bits here and there :lol:


Has Jdizzle (nice name) been touched inappropriately by someone wearing a North t-shirt?


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:31 am 
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Frequent Poster

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:03 pm
Posts: 409
JamesVegas wrote:
Jdizzle wrote:
ID wrote:
people this discussion is getting bit stupid, no? have you gone mad? hahahahaha

the amount of hate indicates some serious frustration here...

everyone has choice... depending on the budget and preference in the end...

yes, equipment is bit overpriced... but you do not need to get hysterical and pour down hate on others, whether it is brand or person on the forum, right? if company offers a product, and decides to charge a certain price for it, they are free to do so, and you as a potential client are free to buy or not... in the end, this is luxury product... it is not like they are trying to rip you off selling drinking water, oxygen, or medicine against cancer...

compare manufacturing/development/marketing costs of other products, and prices you happily pay for them...

if you think you can make better bars cheaper, then set up a company and do it... you will make shitloads of money...

if you cant afford 450 eur bar, then use older second hand bar in reasonable condition and refit it with few new parts if needed... 2010 bar was perfect in 2010, and since then no revolutionary design change was invented... not everybody is driving latest brand new top line model of BMW, so why should everybody be able to afford latest North bar?

anyway, if you pay 450 for your bar in you the shop, manufacturer gets only around 200 or bit more out of this, and there are other costs, than just r&d and manufacturing in the play... marketing, sponsored riders and so on... of course you are paying for this when you buy a product, or where do you think money for this comes from?

there are some brands which only sell direct, and they are cheaper...
and you can get more than half-price deals on second hand equipment in great condition...

or make your own bar, not that you have to do it from scratch, and prototype moulds and so on... just use parts from bars somebody may be throwing out or giving away, or you can buy cheap...
this way you can make your ideal bar...

in the end this is not a rocket science. this is what surprises me me, that otherwise intelligent appearing people sometimes switch their brains off and seem to lack plain common sense when it comes to such simple things, like trimming backlines, changing depower rope, or any simple adaptation/adjustment of their bar for a different conditions or kite...

bar is a stick, with few pieces of ropes and few simple mechanical parts... and there is few simple guidelines to follow, so everything is functional and safe... if you understand basic principles behind kiting, and you are bit handy, then you have no problem...

go to any third world country kite spot, and you will see kids, who have nothing, throwing insane tricks on whatever old bar, kite, board they can get their hands on and having just pure fun...
and even if they cannot read or write, they have enough common sense and invention, to fix and adapt these different bits and pieces together, so they can ride and have fun...

or realize, that while you worried that the price of the 2013 bar you must have because your 2012 is not goood enough anymore rose by 30 euros, there is every second child dying from malnutrition...


Stop being such a pussy, it seems you have your head firmly up North's ass and are trying to justify your purchase?

Anyone who is serious about unhooking will not be using the stupid suicide attachment on the North bar, it's complete crap, just gets in the way every time you want to hook back in. I used the 2013 North bar yesterday, and there is nothing special about it AT ALL!

In my opinion, Ozone makes a much better bar. Its more durable, has a better spinner, the release works 100% OK. I really cannot see why Ozone are even bothering making a new bulky push away system? I really hope that they will continue to sell the old model :( The only improvement needed is a reduction in the bars diameter, and they will have a bar that is perfect, END OF!

It's girls like you who push up the price of products, always wanting some new crappy features on your bar!

There is nothing that can justify the yearly price hike that ALL of the top brands keep pulling on us! Remember, these bars are not being re-designed from scratch each year, it's only minuscule, so called improvements which are added. People keep saying....oh but all the testing and production costs...blah...blah..blah! Can you remember doing tensile and compressive load testing in physics AT SCHOOL? These tests cost bugger all to carry out, and the companies already have their production facilities in place.

I'm so sick of people trying to justify yearly price hikes, when they know nothing at all about engineering or production :roll:

Oh, I think a little more goes into designing a BMW than a bar with a hole in it, some strings, and a few twiddly bits here and there :lol:


Has Jdizzle (nice name) been touched inappropriately by someone wearing a North t-shirt?


Not Just North, I'm butt hurt by the raping I've been taking by all the top brands over the last few years :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:50 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:36 pm
Posts: 220
The top brands usually come with a price for a reason, whether it's a control bar or a truck. Design, innovation, quality, aspiration. North are high up on the list of kiting manufactures that people want to own, they are desirable because of the design, innovation and quality. Is the new North bar worth all that money? Yes if you desire to own it.

There are plenty kites at the cheap end of the market if you want, they won't be as well constructed or designed as the big players, they won't be as desirable and the second hand value will reflect that but they are out there. Our beach is now full of a mid range brand, they are not as good as North but the price, quality and desirability reflects that.

It's your choice what you buy, if you want the best most popular brands expect to pay for it in the kiting world like you do with every other purchase.


Last edited by JamesVegas on Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:25 am
Posts: 2064
Jdizzle to me makes reasonable points but I can't subscribe to his methods. Hey jdizzle is it worth getting so personal?

Although I must admit when I went north a few years back I did notice and appreciate the quality.

Not on north anymore but will always vouch for their production values.


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