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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:36 pm 
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Posts: 277
BigPaul wrote:
I'm not saying in anyway that these bars are as good as North cause they are not. I used to ride north up until Christmas and I loved the Iron Heart. But it is not £100 worse by any means.


I think its hard to say whether its £100 worse without knowing how it operates when tested under full load (eg 200 kg) and also sub optimal conditions. It might be better than North, it might be worse. If it doesn't operate efficiently under full load (as you potentially experience in an emergency situation), then to my mind, its absolutely worthless and I wouldn't touch it. As I said, maybe the starkites bar is great on all these counts, I don't know.

It would be pretty helpful to have transparency around this issue (ie full and current test data available). Then if I could find a bar for €150 or more less that I knew performed as well as North, I'd be the first to switch. I also think this would stir up pricing (and mispricing).

Damn hard to sell a bar for $400+ that people can see doesn't work properly. Also hard to sell a bar for $600 that doesn't provide a meaningful benefit over a $400 bar that does work properly.

But without that data, I'd rather pay more to use a bar that has been tested - and has performed better than all others, some of which failed altogether, than to guess whether my primary safety is up to the job when push comes to shove.....


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 3:38 am
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Location: Malibu
$ 550 for a bar and lines....

It's called gouging.


Last edited by FredBGG on Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:48 pm 
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Posts: 260
Hi Jono

As I've used both in the same conditions, I would say for me the QR is of good quality and works well. I've testing in under these conditions.(Which is really just me surfing)

I'm 80kgs ride in both flat water and wave conditions. I've used the QR only a handful of times but every time its been quick and easy. I use the same bar for my 7,9 &12 and go out in all conditions. (that I'm comfortable with)

I do look after my kit and dont let anything corrode or get stuck with sand as that's just bad practice.

Regards

Paul :D


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:00 pm
Posts: 25
Build own bar from good components. Sew lines yourself.
~ 120 Euros total.


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:44 pm 
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Posts: 234
Just get the Switch bar for $275. Everyone that has seen mine thinks it's a North bar. The release is identical and it's a really nice bar. It's insane what equipment costs these days and it needs to stop or the sport will die off like windsurfing did. People just can't afford it, especially when the equipment is not durable and won't last more than a season or two.


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Location: Tarifa / Got 2 Ovandos and a Ripper
jwoodunlv wrote:
especially when the equipment is not durable and won't last more than a season or two.


Have to strongly disagree on this one ....

I ride most of my equipment a minimum of 200 sessions ( 400 hours ) before I even start thinking changing them .

Most seasonal kiters don't kite more than 30-40 sessions per year .... That means , a kite should easily hold 4-5 years .

The lines of your bar are weared off , Buy new ones for under 40 euros .. Need a new CL line ? They cost 10 euros at most .




Saludos


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:34 pm 
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jwoodunlv wrote:
Just get the Switch bar for $275. Everyone that has seen mine thinks it's a North bar. The release is identical and it's a really nice bar. It's insane what equipment costs these days and it needs to stop or the sport will die off like windsurfing did. People just can't afford it, especially when the equipment is not durable and won't last more than a season or two.


Got to agree that the switch bar looks good at the price...

Also agree on the windsurfing analogy. I used to do a lot of wavesailing when I was young...but you broke a lot of gear in those days, especially booms and mast bases.

One by one, all the young guys chucked it in and got replaced by old guys turning up with all the gear and no idea....then suddenly, it was dead. Booms didnt cost $180 anymore, they cost $380....I think kitesurfing is following the same steps very closely.


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Posts: 2448
Location: Ford Lake, Michigan
oh quit your bitching and build your own bar, $100 for a wichard qr, high pressure tubing, dyneema chicken loop for a chicken loop, or buy a premade chicken loop alone like the ozone megatron qr $45, $50 worth of dyneema sk75 for the leaders and chicken loops, 1 inch block of shaped nylon drill holes in it for the flagout/center lines $5, $20 stainless steel swivel, $2 carbon fiber 2 foot bar, $20 stainless steel insert for the bar, $75 for some 80 meters of 1.75mm dyneema or spectra for 800 pound lines, $10 worth of velcro for the oh shit handles, $50 worth of stainless steel o rings, $20 for a decent cam cleat, and another $20 for a decent pulley (or stainless steel o ring your preference) $15 for a stopper $10 for floaters.

It will run about $350 and you will have an absolutely rock steady bar that you built. If you have some spare parts around from old broken bars you can make it for a lot less, maybe all you need is buy a nylon block and a chicken loop for $50 if you have all the rest laying around.

And the best reason to build your own bar is you get to make your own bar exactly how you like it, center release, side release, above the bar cam, below the bar, oh shit lines or none, long leaders or short leaders, floaties not floates, pulley or o ring, long throw short throw, adjustable throw, you name it, you can build it however you like.


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:20 pm
Posts: 84
Well it has nothing to do with kiteboarding, but with this f*** system and people have no clue until it hits them directly, but then its too late ;)

The price of bars or any other goods is going up simply because of inflation! If you have not noticed we injected trillions of dollars, euros, bassicly money with no real value in to the system in the last 5 years! That actually means only one thing and that is that the money of you, me and everybody else is just worth less! Five years ago, you could buy 10 apples for 10$, now you can buy only 8 for example ;) and houndred years ago a person was rich with less 1000$ and now you are poor :angryfire:

As for comapnies like switch that still have lower prices, they just copy ideas from others, like north for example(who actually did r&d and now have to cover that cost), plus they sell only over their website(so no middleman), also they probably use lower quality materials(dunno for sure coz i didnt see it in real life yet).

:bye:


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:49 am
Posts: 1138
Location: shallow sea
mark van haze wrote:
.......
Is it time for another Best Kiteboarding to come around and shake things up? Are the brands going to introduce normal priced gear and flog it as their "budget line"?

Further more, I believe that as a whole, such pricing hurts the overall interest in the sport and its popularity which in turn makes people not bother with learning it and instead start other, more affordable and accessible sports - read more on that here, "Is kiteboarding a dying sport?"
http://www.skyhooked.co.uk/2012/07/is-kiteboarding-a-dying-sport/

nice article about dying sport.
no wonder, if for the price of the bar only you can buy pretty decent mountain bike with the lifespan ten times or more longer.


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