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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:52 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 46
Harri - Thanks very much for posting the video and positive comments.
Ripper Tom - Thanks for braving the cold water to share your experiences.
Thank you both sincerely. Much appreciated.

Ronnie - I agree that the kite appears soft in the video however I trust Mr Ripper's experience that it was adequate. I don't have experience with these kites specifically in cold water to add any insight. I would however like to give my two cents on the technique that was demonstrated.

While I enjoy reverse relaunch I don't feel it is the most reliable technique. I rarely use it except for launching off the beach. The video shows the kite repeatedly stalling and rolling onto its trailing edge. If this was done with intention to show how it handles in the worst possible positions, then I think its perfectly done. But if the intent is simply to relaunch the kite I feel stall can be completely avoided by relaunching off the wingtip instead of using such aggressive back line input to reverse it. I imagine some could suspect the wingtip technique requires more wind, but this hasn't been my experience.

Mr Ripper, can you comment if you agree or disagree with this description? While not in cold water, I have otherwise flown and relaunched the 17 quite a lot in threshold conditions so I hope you'll be open to my suggestion. Thanks.

For repositioning from the TE I learned from Mr Ripper's technique. My technique has been to pull and hold tension on both front lines from above the bar. But this sometimes requires some patience for a puff of wind. Mr Ripper's technique using the back lines is something new to me but looks like it probably works in even lighter wind. Well done. Thank you Mr Ripper.

Vacaloca - Thanks for the stoke.

acctx - No plans but I'm sure it would be killer.

UKSurf - I think Mr Ripper's video was a huge step in the right direction for this. There's also a video on the website of a 13 in Seattle. I'll try to supplement these with more in the future. Thanks.

turfAndsurf & tautologies - I'll let others come back with their experiences. For me, the handling is best on all sizes when I'm not lit. Key to this for my riding is the available travel at the bar. I have extremely unusually preferences for super long travel. The more the better. So for my riding its never a matter of being pulled off the wave. Handling goes junk when outside its intended range, but not getting yarded anywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:53 am 
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Hi Greg!

Mr. Ripper asked me to post his comments:

Wind was 5-6 Knt and just above the water there was rarely nothing (or max. 3 Knts, caused by "windjam"..in german we call it "Luvstau" ;) Don't know the exactly word in english.
Caused by it's low weight the cloud starts only by sheeting in the bar/pulling one backline wingtip-technique already with 7-8 Knts, also if there's some water behind the LE/on the canopy.
In lower winds it is important NOT to swim back (in intention to get more tension in the back lines, this will cause to much water on the canopy). Mr. Ripper recommends 27 m Lines to generate the most possible low end of the 17m-Cloud.

He indeed tried to stall the kite on his TE just in the intention to show how it works in the worst position possible...and by pulling one backlines about 4 mtrs in, the kite rolls on his LE where you can choose to relaunch over one wingtip or reverse relaunch.

> 7 Knots anybody can relaunch the Cloud, in lower winds you should know what to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 5:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 536
Location: texas
what do you think the sweetspot is for the 10m cloud and a north nugget for a 150lb rider in the waves?


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:01 pm
Posts: 318
My message got deleted twice so here is a short version:

92kg, 200lbs looking to cover 12-13 to 29-29knts with one kite. SB 2012 10m was close to those numbers with 2 boards. Some guys take out the Cloud 6 in 10-12m winds and another one, a 13 in close to 30 (over powered). So what would be the range of the Cloud 10m? Close to a SB?


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:38 am
Posts: 110
Location: Seattle
My 17m Cloud on 27m lines is just awesome. Last Friday I was riding my twintip and working on wakestyle tricks in 9 knots. The Cloud picks up so much apparent wind speed that it enables one to really get enough board speed up to generate some nice pop and height. During that time due to the nature of the beach topography no one else could even launch their kite. On the water it was only myself and a friend whom was riding a 17m Ozone and a race board. Crash after crash the kite relaunched like a dream in winds that I otherwise wouldn't want to crash my strutted kites in.

On another note this kite has become a true session maker and with it and a surfboard I've been able to ride at spots that typically don't fill in enough to launch from. I'll post some shots of a nice 7 knot session near Paul Allen's home in Seattle once I get them.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:36 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:43 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Denmark
I am getting very intersted in getting the 17M. I am often self launching via the anchor method. How well does that work with the Cloud in general and the 17m specifically?

Cheers,
Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:46 am
Posts: 105
Location: San Diego
I have self launch the 17M several times with no problem so I would think it would be easier with an anchor.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:35 pm
Posts: 174
Location: seattle, wa
I've had the 13m out in pretty light winds. That coupled with a good lightwind board seem to be a great solution for me at 180 pounds.
It was 14-17m wind last night at our local spot. Saw some whales upwind so tried to get a picture with my strut less kite mount

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:39 pm
Posts: 2917
I tink dem tings upwind is islands. :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:55 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:35 pm
Posts: 174
Location: seattle, wa
ronnie wrote:
I tink dem tings upwind is islands. :thumb:

yep.
that's hat island just beyond the reflection and parts of whidbey island just upwind of that.
if you look closely to the left of the sun's reflection off the water just in front of that island, you can see the blow spray from the gray whale.


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