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 Post subject: Re: Self land in water
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:27 pm 
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celly wrote:
What are the best methods to self land in water, aside from pulling the release... I have seen a lot of instruction as to how you can do this on the beach but nothing on how to do it while you are in the water. I have limited beach space available for a launch but do have shallow water, waist to knee deep conditions for landing. Any videos or resources you could share are greatly appreciated.


Which kite do you want to self land?


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 Post subject: Re: Self land in water
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:02 pm 
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it doesnt matter what kind of kite (or anchor). un-attended kite bounces and lands, slack line wraps around wingtip or bar end, adios anchor flying through the air. dont do it, its totally unnecessary. every single kite will disable cleanly and completely onto a single center line. double center line tension systems are debate-able (imo), and outside line systems work better on some kites than others, but create a nasty mess 90% of the time. Self land your kite properly by disabling it.


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 Post subject: Re: Self land in water
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:15 am 
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Even if you "disable" your kite you're still at the other end of the lines. In the method I describe, by the time I'm holding a couple meters up one front line, the kite is disabled just like you say. If you want to mess around with releases etc that's up to you, depends on the wind conditions and how the kite is sitting. I can grab the front line and be moving toward the kite before it has a chance to drift or turn or anything and before there is any real line tension. If you want to wait for things to drift downwind more and pull on the one line, you can. By walking in an arc, my lines get folded into a "U" and I don't end up standing around among a mess of lines that I'm pulling in, and nor does my bar slide way up leaving three lines extra loose to catch things.

To each their own though...

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Self land in water
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:58 pm 
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foam-n-fibre wrote:
Even if you "disable" your kite you're still at the other end of the lines.


duh, and then wrap your lines. it takes 30 seconds, everyone should be good at that.


Quote:
want to mess around with releases etc that's up to you


theres not a quick releases out there that is hard to use, and there is no reason to use it in this case anyway. just unhook yourself and let it go onto the leash.


Quote:
depends on the wind conditions and how the kite is sitting.


this is simply not true. if you have doubts about the effectiveness of your leash system in "certain wind conditions and certain kite positions, then you either dont know what your doing or need a proper leash line setup.

sorry to be harsh, but kiting really is not as complex as it can me made out to be, and many accidents do happen when people start getting "creative" with how they handle their gear and dont utilize BASIC, effective, and safe kite handling technique (and common sense)


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 Post subject: Re: Self land in water
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:36 pm 
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infact, Peter we are talking about the same thing: u tension the top (i know you mean top INSIDE/FRONT line) pull it in enough to take the tension off the other 3 lines, then follow that same line up to the kite. this is disabling the kite onto a single center line. you do it that way with your OR bar because it doesnt have a single centerline leash option (just a double centerline system and outside single line system. it is however the same technique (disable the kite and then pull it in)


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 Post subject: Re: Self land in water
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:04 pm 
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Yeah, similar method, but I get to my kite quickly, while it is generally out to the side still, before it has time to drift or try to do anything. Getting your hands on the kite is the best way to completely control it. Of course there is a big difference between calf deep water and chest deep water. Obviously in deeper water you move a lot slower and might opt for the leash option more or always, especially in strong winds. I did say I flag the kite and attach it to something to go get the kite on strong days, so easy on the lecturing.

Now that I think about this though, I can think of some guys that I might not reccomend this to. If you've been kiting a long time (12 years for me) you probably have a better read of the conditions and know how the kite will behave. I would not recommend this to a new rider who doesn't have a healthy fear of what can and does go wrong in some cases, and who does not see the big gusts coming. If you want a single system to always do the same, then yes, flag out on one line and wind 'em up.

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Self land in water
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Location: Ontario Canada
Hey all,

all of the feedback and discussion has been very helpful in helping me understand the different options out there for self landing a kite. Before I go on I want to state my current method and please feel free to point out any dangerous or possible situations I could get into.

At the end of my session I come in so im about 50m away from my property. I signal for assistance and a family member comes out into the knee deep water and I instruct them to watch the kite, if it begins to turn and reverse from the safe position (LE down) they intervene and turn it back. With them close by I then let the kite drift directly downwind and pull the 100% depower release (I am now connected to my kite through my leash which is connected to one of the middle lines. I walk up that middle line hand over hand to my kite. Once I get to my kite (with board in hand) I knee on one knee in the water, put my elbow over the LE to hold the kite in place and then use the free hand to unhook my leash from the middle line to my board and undo my lines. I then grab my kite and walk it (LE still down in safe position, so its more like im draging the kite) upwind to where my bar is. I then get back down in the kneeling position with elbow over the LE and use my free hand to roll up my bar and lines. I then flip the kite over and walk it to shore with bar in hand and board attached to my leash (usually get my assistant to help me with carrying the kite).

This method seems to work, and my ultimate goal is to do this by my self without help. I just started kiting within the last 4 months so feel safer with someone out there to help me out. At first they were very involved in helping me land and as I gain experience I have them help less and less. Now they are just there if something goes wrong.

I am flying a 14m LF light breeze http://liquidforcekites.com/product2012 ... ghtbreeze/

I don't mind this method but it is a pain afterwards because I have to "restring" my lines once I get to shore. I unwind them and then pull the release middle line back into place and click my chickenloop back in since LF uses a 2 part system.

let me know what you guys think.


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 Post subject: Re: Self land in water
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:40 pm 
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Install a float in the water if you want to not use the knees and elbows. Land the kite and wait till it drifts straight down from you depowered. Clip your kite leash the float, then walk down to the kite and grab it. Walk it back to your bar, unhook your bar from the float and clip the ridle of the kite to the float so the kite sits LE down on the water. Walk downwind of the kite with your bar, and sort out your lines and wind them up till you are near your kite, but leave enough slack to be able to walk around one end with the bar to the front of the kite. Unclip the kite, turn it onto its back and hold the LE and bar together and the kite should lift off the water for easy walking, unless the wind is super light. If you don't drag the bar, with luck your lines are put away in perfect condition, ready to unroll, check them and ride next time, with no other line messing around.

If your board won't just drift onto a non-damaging shore, have a long enough rope on your float to clip the board near it, and then bar a bit further downwind, so they board does not get in the way.

HTH,
Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Self land in water
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:43 pm 
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... the sad part is unfortunately your instructor (i'm guessing you took lessons) did not explain and demonstrate this to you and have you execute. basically, it's the same procedure as a self-rescue, except you would not wind up your lines on the bar, but pull in the leash line hand-over-hand to the kite, staying upwind of the lines - this should be taught AT THE END OF EVERY first water lesson.
i'm constantly amazed how many students i get that have had several water lessons that have not been taught a self-rescue by their instructor, much less a self landing.
enjoy your kiting and keep it safe!


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 Post subject: Re: Self land in water
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:37 pm 
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exuma kitesurfing wrote:
... you would not wind up your lines on the bar, but pull in the leash line hand-over-hand to the kite, staying upwind of the lines
enjoy your kiting and keep it safe!



Im sorry but im not sure I fully understand what you mean by this... I do do that but as I pull hand over hand i also walk toward the kite, making sure I am clear of all my lines. Then i secure the kite and disconnect my lines. Once the lines are disconnected I take the kite to where my bar is, then secure the kite with one arm and roll up my lines with my free hand.


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