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 Post subject: Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Caesar wrote:
That grip material of the bar is far too soft (and I mentioned this in my very first email to D already after receiving the first kite). It was dented through to the plastic on 2 places already when I received it.


I second that - my bar is dented in a few spots and has one rip just from getting worked, while sitting in the bag, by the flange on the release mechanism. The EVA foam on 2011+ bars might be nice to touch (without sunscreen on your hands) but is simply too soft and inadequate for the application.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:52 pm 
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I never have had a problem with my 2010 Epic bar, i still use this bar without tears on grip material.
I have an ozone bar 2012 as well and both bars look that they are made from the same grip material

Epic 2012-13 bar looks even better.
I like how hard Dimitri is testing his product before releasing it into the market



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 Post subject: Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:34 pm 
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zik46 wrote:
I never have had a problem with my 2010 Epic bar, i still use this bar without tears on grip material.
I have an ozone bar 2012 as well and both bars look that they are made from the same grip material

Epic 2012-13 bar looks even better.
I like how hard Dimitri is testing his product before releasing it into the market


So what are you saying with "Epic 2012-13 bar looks even better"? Have you kited with that 2012 bar for a year?
The 2010 grip material on your bar is obviously different to the material of my 2012 bar or how do you explain your bar is still perfect while my bar is ready for the garbage bin now?


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:38 pm 
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tomtombreizh wrote:
I still have my 2010 EPIC bar.


See above...


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:14 pm 
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I've never had any kite or bar of any brand, look like the pair pictured.
The 2011 and 3G Epic kites all use the same Dacron strut material, the S10 LTD model strut material is not different from the other Epic models, it is also the same Dacron material that was used by Blade and several other companies, all made in the same factory, on the same sewing machines, with the same people sewing them.
Nobody else has reported six strut failures on ANY Epic kite, so something unusual is going on with the pictured kite.
I would think that it is a bad kite, but Caesar reported that his last S10 LTD got trashed as well, that would suggest something particular to the user.
I had a 3G S10 LTD and it was made just as well as my other 2011 and 3G Epic kites and my 2010 & 2012 Blade kites, none of which have given me problems.

Bar cover material is obviously personal preference.
There is another thread on the forum right now, with someone complaining of his bar being to rough on his hands.
Make them soft enough to be good for really kite long sessions and they will be too soft for some, make them harder and folks complain of blisters.
I have an Epic bar, Blade bar, Best bar, Slingshot bar, Switch bar..three are soft and two are hard.
I prefer the harder bars, they feel right in my hands but all the cover materials are in the same shape and all will show wear.
None will ever look like Caesars bar.

The lineset that Ceasar is complaining about was my least favorite lineset.
Lots of companies had those white with flecks of color lines on their bars for a couple seasons (2011 & 2102?)
Mine were on two North bars, and I'm glad they are no longer the lines of choice.
But line stretch is normal, so I don't understand that complaint.
I don't know how all his other linesets had ZERO stretch, something there does not add up.

I have had some valves come off over the years, there were years where I replaced every valve on every kite in my quiver.
One year I did something like 35 valves, but that year lots of companies were having valve problems and my Slingshots were all coming off.
I have had good luck with my Blade and Epic valves, I did have one inflate valve lose the ball, so I put an Airtime replacement valve on it and the current owner reports that the replacement valve is still right where it belongs.

Seems folks who have problems with Dacron, also have problems with valve nipples, linesets that stretch, bar covering that gets thrashed, chicken loop releases that don't open, depower straps that don't work, wrapped lines & death looping kites.
Not sure what that says, but is says something.


Last edited by Oldnbroken on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:26 pm 
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Oldnbroken wrote:
I've never had any kite or bar of any brand, look like the pair pictured.
The 2011 and 3G Epic kites all use the same Dacron strut material, the S10 LTD model strut material is not different from the other Epic models, it is also the same Dacron material that was used by Blade and several other companies, all made in the same factory, on the same sewing machines, with the same people sewing them.
Nobody else has reported six strut failures on ANY Epic kite, so something unusual is going on with the pictured kite.
I would think that it is a bad kite, but Caesar reported that his last S10 LTD got trashed as well, that would suggest something particular to the user.


The first kite crashed as a result of the none-working QR. I could not open that darn thing when I was bashed around on the beach when one of the lines went underneath the bar and the kite was dead-looping. The kite ended up in a tree after I was dragged around through sand for about 100 meters. That was the reason the kite was a write-off.

Oldnbroken wrote:
Bars are a personal preference thing.
There is another thread on the forum right now, with someone complaining of his bar being to rough on his hands.
Make them soft enough to kite mega sessions and they will be too soft for some, make them harder and folks complain of blisters.
I have an Epic bar, Blade bar, Best bar, Slingshot bar, Switch bar..three are soft and two are hard.
I prefer the harder bars, they feel right in my hands but all the cover materials are in the same shape and all will show wear, none will ever look like Caesars bar.


None of any bars I had looked like that Epic bar either. None!
I have a2011 Cab bar here which I purchased in 2010. That bar looks like brand new still. The lines were replaced with Q-Powerlines. Want to see a pic of that bar in it's perfect mint condition?

Oldnbroken wrote:
The lineset that Ceasar is complaining about is my least favorite lineset.
Lots of companies had those white with flecks of color lines on their bars for a couple seasons, mine were on two North bars, and I'm glad they are no longer the lines of choice.
But line stretch is normal, so I don't understand that complaint, I don't know how all his other linesets had ZERO stretch, something there does not add up.


Not sure where you got that from. I never complained about the Epic lines. I only criticized the excessive wearing of the Epic bridle lines because of the ring or slider. But D. finally realized that and is testing proper pullies now.

Oldnbroken wrote:
Seems folks who have problems with Dacron, also have problems with valve nipples, linesets that stretch, bar covering that gets thrashed, chicken loop releases that don't open, depower straps that don't work, wrapped lines & death looping kites.
Not sure what that says, but is says something.


That bullshit you could have kept for yourself! There is no need to bash down what I wrote and experienced, or to make up things in order to protect your mate Dimitri. Read again what I criticized and why I switched to another brand.
I didn't have problems with the line set, neither did I have problems with the depower strap or with any nipples. Valves were de-lamination. I never had such a problem with any Cab kite. But several valves of my 3 Epic kites came off.
If you still have a 10m LTD, pump it up, put it up to 12 o clock and see how it wobbles around there like jelly pudding. That might be the reason for the strut breakages...


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:51 pm 
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Gerhard,
I mixed your troubles/complaints in with Alexey's, sorry for my confusion.
My point was, that you guys have a number of issues that very few others complain about.

Not trying to bash you down, but I find it hard to believe that all your problems are from faulty gear.
I know the strut material and construction in question is the same as at least a half dozen other brands, and so many have had no issue with it.
To answer your question about my S10...It was fine, I always pumped it to 9 PSI and it worked well for me, struts were good, it was in good shape when I sold it and it is still in good shape according to it's owner.

Your kitemare loop problem was yours, I covered this with you the last time you came to say it was all the fault of Epic. Lets not do that one over.

Delaminating valves are a fact of life, and no company has had a perfect record, the biggest kite company in the world has had the most problems, which statistically makes sense.
These days all valves stick better than they used to, but occasionally some still come off.
It happens to you more often than normal, which is par for the course.

Others are just lucky I guess..and their gear works fine...from many companies...for years now.


Last edited by Oldnbroken on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:22 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:52 pm 
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Location: OUTER BANKS (NC) USA. Owner of EPICKITES
Quote:
I think you should be happy that EPIC even answer you and took care of listening to your complain. Most of the kite companies would not even take the time to respond to you.
I have been working with few of the main kiteboarding companies in the past, and they would not take care of your complain unless you are an important buyer and purchase 20+ kites.

You are right Flysurf77 all our customers are very important to us and it doesn't matter if they order 1 kite or 10 kites.
Any way good luck with your new kites Caesar. I know I'm having a great time with the hang time of the SCREAMERS.


Attachments:
Dimitri testing the performance of the SCREAMER 4G kite.jpeg
Dimitri testing the performance of the SCREAMER 4G kite.jpeg [ 76.21 KIB | Viewed 199 times ]
Dimitri testing the SCREAMER 4G kites.jpg
Dimitri testing the SCREAMER 4G kites.jpg [ 194.08 KIB | Viewed 246 times ]


Last edited by Dimitri M on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:10 pm 
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I dont think the material on my 2010 is different than 2012-13. Iam saying that i like the QR system on the 2012-13 bar better.I never had a problem with my 2010 QR though .

Also Ceasar if you zoom in your photo as you said, the only thing you first realize on your Epic bar is that the most
damage is in the center of the bar and that because you put a different QR CL system than the Epic original one . The north CL system looks like it is bigger at the upper end and more sharp than the original Epic one.

The left tear YES its an issue , i hope your dog is not playing with the bar when you are not home :D


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:16 pm 
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Quote:
Also Ceasar if you zoom in your photo as you said, the only thing you first realize on your Epic bar is that the most
damage is in the center of the bar and that because you put a different QR CL system than the Epic original one . The north CL system looks like it is bigger at the upper end and more sharp than the original Epic one.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: that was a good one zik46


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