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Oldnbroken wrote:Not trying to bash you down, but I find it hard to believe that all your problems are from faulty gear.
I know the strut material and construction in question is the same as at least a half dozen other brands, and so many have had no issue with it.

Did you do the quality control of the kite which was sent to me and checked if it was the same strut material and not by any mistake something different? No? Then shut up and keep your comments for yourself.

Oldnbroken wrote:Your kitemare loop problem was yours, I covered this with you the last time you came to say it was all the fault of Epic. Lets not do that one over.

Huh???! What are you talking about?
I jumped, then there was a sudden wind dull, the lines got slack, one line came underneath the bar, wind picked up again, I tried to get the line back but the kite started looping. So I tried to release the QR which I could not open. How could that be my fault that I could not open the QR???
When I was out of hospital, I did a test with a spring scale under perfect conditions and it took 14KG to open that darn thing. Again- that was under perfect conditions.
I made a clip as evidence and sent that to Dimitri so he could see it himself. If you like I can upload it to YouTube for the whole world to have a look at.

Oldnbroken wrote:Delaminating valves are a fact of life, and no company has had a perfect record, the biggest kite company in the world has had the most problems, which statistically makes sense.

Last year was 2012 and not 2009 or 2010. In those earlier years reputable kite companies had the last time those issues with delaminating valves as far as I know. I NEVER had any valve problems before and my kites were stored 24/7 in plastic boxes in the boot of my car in Tropical Queensland/Australia. The Epic kites are stored in a cool spare bedroom.

Mate, how come you (and a few other Epic "followers") jump straight in and bash down any criticism when someone posts faults on his/her Epic kite? I did not write lies or bullshit. Everything I wrote is true. I did not ask for compensation or anything what happened to my kites. I listed facts and I'm pissed off when you, Dimitri and/or a few others of yours rave those kites, how good they are, that they fly in 2 knots, that they are the best quality kites on the market, that warranty issues are handled perfectly etc
If there is a fault, you (as Epic) don't even ask to inspect the kite and what could be wrong, but just write: "Sorry, but you are the first one who that happened to..."
If there is a fault under warranty, the part get's replaced or if that is not possible, the whole kite is getting replaced. That is the service I expected (but not received).

Making changes on the next generation 4G kites to the QR, the strut material, the bar grip material, changing to pullies instead of rings or sliders, better valves etc tells that Epic has problems with those things. Unfortunately I experienced all those faults and all I heard were excuses that I'm the only one.
BULLSHIT!

24/7 in a plastic box in the boot of your car.....uhmm....I guess you didn t ride those kite very much!
Anyway, today I had the chance to fly the Screamer 7m 4G prototype all the way to 45+ knots during Andreas Tropical Storm in the Outer .banks, not very fun as the wind was very gusty but the kite was holding very good even with some depower and the jumps were crazzzzzy high!!
Didn t have to use the QR as I am usually able to keep my kite flying, but the bar looks and feels great!
I like the double ring where you hook your leash that gives you the option to flag 100% or just use it as Suicide for freestyle?
Tomorrow will be great wind in the ocean so hopefully I ll be able to demo the new Renegade and the Surf kite!
Will keep posting!

Caesar wrote:Huh???! What are you talking about?
I jumped, then there was a sudden wind dull, the lines got slack, one line came underneath the bar, wind picked up again, I tried to get the line back but the kite started looping. So I tried to release the QR which I could not open. How could that be my fault that I could not open the QR?
I did not ask for compensation or anything.

I said the looping was caused by your kiting, not by equipment. That's what I said.
Many kiters have had this type of incident, and after your first one, you learn to be aware of as many ways as you can to get out of trouble, and try hard to kite within limits you can handle.
If the pull force number was as you say it was, you are saying that in a panic situation, you did not have 14KG of strength with two hands to pull the cuff. Okay..other options provided.
There are two oh sh1t loops on your bar...there is a large red depower strap to grab as well.
Lots of sports gear I've bought in my life has a warning printed right on it, saying that this is a dangerous endeavor, and only you are responsible for injury/death.
Nobody owes you anything in a dangerous sport when you hurt yourself.
All the other kiters that have that loop and open it easily don't agree that it is a problem (for us).
When I started kiting, my loops did not open, just ropes & tubing tied in a loop, no release system.
You think every mountain biker who can't get out of his filthy clipless pedals and lands on his head, bitches to Trek about it?
I've broken suspension forks (and many other parts) and slammed and the companies that make them could not care less.
My Slingshot, Blade/Epic, Ocean Rodeo, Switch CL's all work when they are clean and I test just before I put any kite in the air ...every time.
I have a neck/spine that cost $60,000 USD for a surgeon to do repair work on.
I blame myself for breaking it, I have no concept of looking for somebody else to blame.

Caesar wrote:Did you do the quality control of the kite which was sent to me and checked if it was the same strut material and not by any mistake something different?

As I said, nobody else has reported six strut failures on any Epic kite..something unique is going on with your situation.
The kite passed QC inspection, or it would not have left the plant.

Caesar wrote:Last year was 2012 and not 2009 or 2010. In those earlier years reputable kite companies had the last time those issues with delaminating valves as far as I know. I NEVER had any valve problems before and my kites were stored 24/7 in plastic boxes in the boot of my car in Tropical Queensland/Australia. The Epic kites are stored in a cool spare bedroom.

Earlier years?.. 2005-2006-2007 would be the earlier years many valves had problems.
Since 2009 valves have been pretty good, but valves still fail on all kite brands occasionally, and like I said, you apparently have more problems than most, for whatever reason.
You know why so many other kiters on Epic kites are not complaining about valves? ..because there have not been lots of problems with them!

Caesar wrote:Mate, how come you jump straight in and bash down any criticism when someone posts faults on his/her Epic kite? I did not write lies or bullshit. Everything I wrote is true. I listed facts and I'm pissed off when you, Dimitri and/or a few others of yours rave those kites, how good they are, that they fly in 2 knots, that they are the best quality kites on the market, that warranty issues are handled perfectly etc
Making changes on the next generation 4G kites, to the QR, the strut material, the bar grip material, changing to pullies instead of rings or sliders, better valves etc tells that Epic has problems with those things. Unfortunately I experienced all those faults and all I heard were excuses that I'm the only one.
BULLSHIT!

I don't rave about kites, don't claim knots, don't claim Epic are the best quality kites on the market, don't talk specifics about how warranty issues are handled.
I have four different brands of kites in my quiver, so I'm regularly testing the pros and cons of four different brands.
Epic does some canopy changes every year...Epic CL system is in redesign, grip foam is not, strut Dacron not, valves not, sliders not.
I do point out that you are an exception when you come to a public forum and bash something, when the vast, vast majority do not have the problems that plague you.

MEGALOOPING THE JUDGE 6m@40kts

ON FIRE!!!

Dimitri M wrote:

Also Ceasar if you zoom in your photo as you said, the only thing you first realize on your Epic bar is that the most
damage is in the center of the bar and that because you put a different QR CL system than the Epic original one . The north CL system looks like it is bigger at the upper end and more sharp than the original Epic one.

that was a good one zik46

I have another "good one" to share. To make things clear right from the start, this bar has a total of about 30-40 outings on it, and by "outings" I don't mean "days. Also you might notice that the original chickenloop is still there, so:
Already had to re-glue a piece of the foam in place: And all that because of the release handle's flange that is too sharp and/or the grip material being absolutely inadequate. Can't wait to hear what I'm the first one with these issues!

Yes Dimitri, all bars peal at some point, but not after 40 not-even-full-day outing. My 2 Eclipse bars looked a lot better when I sold them after 3 seasons.

Yes, I know that you can't satisfy everybody. I'll let you know a secret - you don't have to!

As a matter of fact Dimitri, you're not in everybody-satisfying business at all, because if you think you are - you might just as well consider dropping the whole kite thing altogether and opening a happy-ending-massage saloon - you'd be right at place there!

But let me remind your - for now you're in kitesurfing gear business and what matters here is the quality and dependability of the gear that you sell. Because if I can't count on my kite while I'm 2 miles away from shore - it means that I've made a wrong decision when I chose the brand.

If your bar is a piece of horse-$hit, it doesn't matter what kind of a chicken loop is attached to it and how stocked people are about that chicken loop, the bar it-self is still a piece of horse-$hit!

You might have the most responsive service on the market to date, but if your "responsiveness" comes down to blowing off your clients and finding excuses as to how it's their own fault that the equipment is failing and/or they are the only ones having these particular problems... well, this kind of "service" is nothing but horse-$hit too!

If a customer who has a chance to fly your kites for more than 200 days a year has discovered that your kite is faulty because the struts are too thin. Well you better listen to him and thank the guy instead of blowing him off and coming up with more horse-$hit to blow him of. Because it sounds to me that you don't get to test your own kites long enough to discover all the problems.

Dimitri, do you need to be reminded how the whole Eclipse thing turned belly-up at the end? And why? Because if you have the balls to say something openly in public - you gotta stand behind your words! Dude, you make some very nice-flying kites, but if you don't start being straight and honest with your customers - we might just witness the most Epic fail of them all.

Have fun jumping your Screamers meanwhile!

Oldnbroken wrote: Not trying to bash you down, but I find it hard to believe that all your problems are from faulty gear.
I know the strut material and construction in question is the same as at least a half dozen other brands, and so many have had no issue with it.
To answer your question about my S10...It was fine, I always pumped it to 9 PSI and it worked well for me, struts were good, it was in good shape when I sold it and it is still in good shape according to it's owner.

Bud, just because you haven't had your 10Ltd for long enough, it doesn't mean that there's no problem. I doubt I'll be able to see these problems my-self given the no-wind $hit-hole where a live and the fact that I change my gear every 2-3 seasons anyways. Yes the struts material is the same, but these struts are really too thin and in long run - i'm sure we'll be seeing more and more of these failures pooping up. If you've done some physics - you might remember that a large diameter tube with thinner walls can actually take a lot more than a smaller diameter tube with the same wall thickness. It is not for peanuts that the struts on the 4G are back to "normal" size after all.

Cheers!

I guess opinion of condition is very subjective...Alexey's bar looks just fine to me.
Here are my Switch, Slingshot, Epic, Blade and Best bars.
The Switch has very few hours on it and the white round piece came in broken and then I broke another one, then the donkey dick failed and I made a better one that works, the black part of the grip foam (left of center) that interlaces between the gray, fell off after four sessions, so the rough feel is more rough now, the red will go soon.
The center of the bar also chews depower line rope pretty fast.
The Slingshot bar's metal center part fell off and the bar covering is obviously beat up, ..hard materials get beat up too, it is also older than the rest.
The Slingshot and Switch are two of the bars that the guys who don't like hard bars, complain giving them blisters.
The Epic bar, I bought from Epic used (2010 or 2011?) and has held up well for me, in my subjective opinion.
The Blade bar is from my 2010 Blade Triggers and has held up well, in my subjective opinion.
This Blade bar is for my small kites, as it is only 45 wide.
The Best bar has an Ocean Rodeo CL on it and it is obviously worn (the center plastic) and gotten chipped up.
My favorite foam covering is on the Ocean Rodeo bars, I do not have any of them in my garage these days to shoot a pic of...unfortunately.
But if Epic wants to upgrade their foam, Ocean Rodeo bars are the place to look.
I think all of my bars here are fine and would not complain to any of the companies that they came from.
Cheers!

All those marks are from the squared edges on the qr, direct result from the way you pack down your kit, pack your bar so the qr isn't jammed onto the bar . The new qr with nice smooth lines will sort it anyway. The bar grip material is good imho, its made for hands after all.

Dimitri, do you need to be reminded how the whole Eclipse thing turned belly-up at the end? And why? Because if you have the balls to say something openly in public - you gotta stand behind your words! Dude, you make some very nice-flying kites, but if you don't start being straight and honest with your customers - we might just witness the most Epic fail of them all.

With all due respect Mr.alexeyga but this is were I draw the lines. I have nothing to hide. What you see is what you get. This is the reason why I have not release the new 4G Chicken Loop because I was not 110% happy until now.
If I am happy about a product and beleive in it I will release it. Everything has to go through me before it goes to the public. So please get your story straight before you start talking about what ever happened with Eclipse.
Concerning the bar you have... I don't see any problems. This looks like you have been kiting instead of seating behind a computer, good for you.
Concerning the customer service you can always email me or my wife Helen directly. I am sure you have all these infos.

P.S. Yes I had fun jumping on my Screamer yesterday thank you, but today I had an epic time in the waves. As you can see I am always in the water testing the equipment to the max.

By the way this is the person in charge of the customer service for special clients.

Dimitri M wrote:By the way this is the person in charge of the customer service for special clients.

Awesome. Where did you meet Big Nog.? He just fought tonight.. Does he kite?