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BRM Cloud 13.5 w/ extensiosn vs. 17 in low winds

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pikovsg
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BRM Cloud 13.5 w/ extensiosn vs. 17 in low winds

Postby pikovsg » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:47 am

Has anyone tried this with the Cloud kites:

Testing low end of BRM Cloud with a 13.5 with 5m extensions (25m lines), 10m extensions (30m lines) vs. a BRM 17m with regular 20m lines with and w/o extensions? My guess is 13.5 will stay up and let you foil/kite in lighter wind, due to its aspect ratio and lower weight. Is that true?

Also, has anyone ever tried the 8.5 Cloud with 30m lines?

bigtone667
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Re: BRM Cloud 13.5 w/ extensiosn vs. 17 in low winds

Postby bigtone667 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:18 am

I have a 23metre slingshot bar with five metre extensions that I have used with the 17m Cloud. It turns a little bit slower but generates serious power.

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Re: BRM Cloud 13.5 w/ extensiosn vs. 17 in low winds

Postby Sombra » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:17 pm

Hi

Once I was considering to get a Cloud 2 in 17, second hand.
I tried the kite for 1,5 hours on a hidrofoil in 10-12knots.
I'm 110kgs + gear.
I have a FLYSURFER Speed4 lotus 18, I owned a Zephyr and I sold it because it does not fit to the hidrofoil.
I didn't had the BRM Bar.
So I tried with Ozone 55cm bar with 30m lines.

At the beginning I seemed to be to short steering lines so I added 15cm pigtails.

Didn't liked the kite. When it got fast the bar forces increased to a level that I couldn't generate enough force to stear the kite without getting pulled from the board. The kite also had a bad down tendency increasing by riding faster.
So during the faster riding moments my main concern was how to get the kite up without pushing to hard the foil board and loosing control on the board.

I like very much the riding of Greg. But concerning my very short experience with a bar that was not the BRM bar the kite was a big disappointment.

I'm not saying it is a bad kite, only my experience with the gear I had was disappointing.

My experience is, that, as you increase your riding level increases the "best" gear changes every 6 month. Now I'm mainly riding a 10m Reo on 30 m lines and it fits perfectly down to 10-11 knots. Then it is the Speed, which now is the next thing I will change.
I' m in between the Pulse in 15, Speed 5 in 15 or the Storm Voyager in 15.
The first 2 options would include the need of selling the Speed, meanwhile getting the Voyager be added to the quiver without more changes. As said in another threat, the optimum number of toys is N+1.

Good winds to everybody.

Any comment on the three kites named before for a free ride hidrofoil use are highly appreciated.

CU

Carsten

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Re: BRM Cloud 13.5 w/ extensiosn vs. 17 in low winds

Postby herbert » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:23 pm

I have used the 17m with extensions for a few sessions and over a hundred sessions without extensions...(but just with a surfboard). Given the usage difference, I probably have a familiarity bias. That being said, I prefer the 20m lines alone. 17m is a big kite and I would either ride it in very low winds or in winds in which the lulls were quite low. The short lines kept the kite more responsive and if I turned downwind in a lull and threatened to drop the kite, the short lines allowed me to save it.

Did you ever talk to a fellow kiter who says he is not riding because the wind is too low for his 11m kite? You ask why he doesn't use his 14m kite. He replies that in low wind, his 14m flies poorly, will likely fall and not relaunch. For some bigger kites...bigger = harder to keep it aloft. Well, in my experience, the bigger the Cloud, the easier it is the stay aloft in light winds. Or at least is doesn't get more difficult as kite size increases. I have not compared the 13.5 and 17 immediately back to back more than once or twice, but I think I can keep flying the 17m in at least as low a lull as the 13.5m. My guess is that the 13.5m will not let you foil/kite in lighter wind than the 17m, regardless of lines, but the 17m will only gain you 1 to 1.5 knots at the low end foiling and 2 to 3 knots on the low end on a surfboard....but of course you gain more high end range than that amount with 13.5m.

To Carsten's experience: I know what you described. I had the same experience episodically in my first dozen or so sessions (but not after that) when the wind would pick up. You hydrofoiled in 10 to 12 knots with the 17m. That is the real upper limit of the hydrofoil range of that kite. I would usually use it from as low as anyone can fly a kite and up to 11 knots. (10 knots and up I would now use the 8.5m.) The Clouds generate a lot of apparent wind, and all the more so of course when hydrofoiling. Parking the kite low, wind at 12 knots, and hydrofoiling fast....the power generated will be tremendous. The tendency is naturally to sheet out. The Cloud will flatten its canopy sheeted out like that (3 cm can make a difference when other kites will stay rounded and more powered. This means you can go into a zone of lower power and less steering responsiveness. It is a little counterintuitive, but you need to sheet in (even just as a 1 second "pulse") and steer the kite up. The Clouds are not grunty so that pulse of sheeting in will not pull you off and kite up and sheeted out you will be in the right place in 1 or 2 seconds. The ability to way depower to nothing for half a second with the kite up high up when foiling is sweet...for those times when you are foiling and within a half second of ventilating the foil...pulsing out 10 cm for half a second shuts off the power and saves it.

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tautologies
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Re: BRM Cloud 13.5 w/ extensiosn vs. 17 in low winds

Postby tautologies » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:32 am

I'd just add to it, that the 13.5 cloud has more use areas as well. My personal experience on foils was to always use the smallest usable kite I could.

I cannot speak specifically to the difference between the 13.5 and 17 with a foil and line lenghts though.

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Re: BRM Cloud 13.5 w/ extensiosn vs. 17 in low winds

Postby pmaggie » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:30 pm

My two cents about extensions (never tested the BRM). I sometimes use the 3 mts. extensions (24+3, total 27) on my Core XR2 15. They're really useful since with them the kite generates serious power but as the wind picks up a little I immediately feel a little bit uncomfortable. With standard line the wind range of my kite of the kite looses I think about 1, maximum 2 knots in the lower range but gains 3 or 4 knots in the upper range. Also, it's significantly faster and more funny to ride. So at the moment I prefer the extensions only in marginal winds. I ride only TTs.

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Re: BRM Cloud 13.5 w/ extensiosn vs. 17 in low winds

Postby Slappysan » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:29 pm

My 2 light wind kites are C2 17m and LF Solo 12m. I have a LF foil and I weigh 72 kg. Never tried extentions.

I can foil in 6 knots with my 17m, 8 knots with my 12m.

I don't think you'll get as low as the C2 17m with the newer 13.5m.

bigtone667
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Re: BRM Cloud 13.5 w/ extensiosn vs. 17 in low winds

Postby bigtone667 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:01 am

The main benefit of 17m C2 for my weight (100kg) is it allows me to get up onto the wing in much lighter wind conditions than the 13.5m. Once I am up, the 17 or 13.5 would probably both work.


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