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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Pump me up wrote:
There are SO many bullshit claims by kite companies regarding light wind capabilities. NO kite will perform in < 7-8 knots. The owners and distributors of the Epic Infinity are amongst the worst offenders. To claim the Epic Infinity can perform in "2-4 knots" (even if it is with a SUP) is ridiculous and a blatant lie and leaves the company wide open to claims from disgruntled users.

Continually posting videos or images of kites flying in glassy or conditions without whitecaps makes me think the posters are trying to hide something or deliberately trying to mislead. Anyone with any significant light-wind kitesurfing experience knows there must be significant wind gradient involved.

The ONLY way to gauge the RELATIVE performance of kites in light winds is to fly them side-by-side, with similarly experienced riders and similar boards.

With BIG light wind kites, there is no magic formula. Various permutations and combinations have been tested over the years...

It is simply not possible for the Epic Infinity (V1, 2, or 3) or Flysurfer kites to surpass significantly the performance of every other light wind kite in existence. There is not enough energy for ANY kite to perform in 2-4 knots of wind!

...

I didn't read this entire thread (22 pages already?) but this is one of better posts you have started in a while.

Everyone knows that if you use a light rider or a big board, you can do some crazy things in STEADY light wind. (many of us don't have steady wind when it is light..it is usually regularly dropping off to zero). Add a race board and many people are throwing spray when everyone else is standing on the beach.

However, the claims from companies have gotten out of hand. Give us a SIZE on the kite, don't just call it the "Incredible". We understand physics. So...if it is a 15M kite, tell us. If the manufacturer mentions that the kite is also produced with lighter materials, has a custom bridle, or has a shape making it relaunch or whatever easier, we will understand that it can really perform better in light air than similar sized kites. We also understand that line lengths help.

My point is, light wind kites are real, but the miracle claims made are bullshit.

Some of the popular ones I have seen out are the Ozone and Slingshot Turbine kites, in addition to the Flysurfers of course. I haven't seen any Infinitys first hand, but I see a lot of them on kiteforum. :D I'm sure they are good as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:05 am 
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This was today during our EPIC demo in Cocoa Beach FL December 11th.
The wind did not cooperate as well as we thought but we had the opportunity to fly the INFINITY v3 in less then 2 knots but fell out of the sky after 5 seconds. So then we went to another beach in the ocean and the wind pick up to 4 maybe 5 knots max. So my wish for light wind came true. It was perfect conditions to prove what the INFINITY v3 is capable of in such light winds. So we had the INFINITY V3 prototype flying by itself for at least an hour on the beach. Then Mr."SupaEZ" and few other kiters showed up with a CORE 19 meter kite and 27 meter lines compare to the 22 meter lines that I was using on the INFINITY V3. I should of add the 5 meter extension lines that comes with the INFINITY v3 but did not really need it.
Then once the CORE 19 meter went up the showdown started... We had a great head to head session on the beach for at least 45 minutes testing the limits of both kites, turning speed, stability, relaunching and looping. Both kites were performing very nice in such light winds. Then after playing on the beach flying these kites in 4 to 5 knots the wind pick up to (6 - 8 maximum 9 knots) and we were able to get in the water. (video coming soon).

P.S. We all had a great time and I would like to thank "321 KITEBOARDING" store and the local kiters for helping us out with the demos and showing us their home spots. Too bad the wind did not go above 10 knots but will be back on Thursday. So if you are in Cocoa Beach make sure to stop by "321 KITEBOARDING" shop and meet the locals. Great guys to be with.


Attachments:
2Cocoa beach FL 2.jpg
2Cocoa beach FL 2.jpg [ 620.41 KIB | Viewed 532 times ]
3Cocoa Beach 8.jpg
3Cocoa Beach 8.jpg [ 437.82 KIB | Viewed 532 times ]
Dimitri trying the INFINITY v3 in on shore 5 to 8 knots 4.jpg
Dimitri trying the INFINITY v3 in on shore 5 to 8 knots 4.jpg [ 334.81 KIB | Viewed 532 times ]
INFINITY V3 in less then 5 knots so stable 3.jpg
INFINITY V3 in less then 5 knots so stable 3.jpg [ 329.74 KIB | Viewed 532 times ]
INFINITY V3 7.jpg
INFINITY V3 7.jpg [ 280.84 KIB | Viewed 532 times ]
Testing the iNFINITY against the 19 Core 5.jpg
Testing the iNFINITY against the 19 Core 5.jpg [ 334.6 KIB | Viewed 532 times ]
1kiting in 5 to 8 knots on INFINITY v3 6.jpg
1kiting in 5 to 8 knots on INFINITY v3 6.jpg [ 360.16 KIB | Viewed 532 times ]


Last edited by Dimitri M on Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:23 am 
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Damn, Dimitri. That 5th picture is awesome. Really cool. :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:46 am 
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Why 27 meter lines for the Core kite?
With 19 square meters of cloth, I would think there should be no need for 27 meter lines, makes a comparison a little difficult.
Michel is already at 16 pounds less rider weight.
I assume both kiters were on the same board at least, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:49 am 
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So what happened? After all this hype, the showdown at Cocoa beach finally happens and no comments? No discussion of gradient wind? No head to head comparisons with the Core 19m, and how one flew relative to the other in the same wind on maybe the same board? Come on. Give us some details. The public must know! :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:54 am 
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Last edited by Oldnbroken on Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:01 am 
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Last edited by Oldnbroken on Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:14 am 
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Location: OUTER BANKS (NC) USA. Owner of EPICKITES
Guys,
I know you are anxious to know how the kites did perform in these light wind conditions. Will have a video very soon so you can make your own judgment on the performance of these kites in such light winds.
Once again, I did not have an SUP board to go and kite in 4 to 2 knots so we had to wait for the wind to pick up at least 6 to let's say 8-9 knots max to be able to plan on these on shore winds.
But so you know, both of these kites "INFINITY V3" and "CORE 19" were going back and forth.
Now let's all enjoy dinner for tomorrow's demo. :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:26 am 
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14 T will be there Thursday as I said from the beg. I am looking for 4 KNOTS Max. Once again, if the V3 does the same as the Dyno 18 getting me upwind in those conditions, D will have a sale.

SupaEZ flew the V3 today Back 2 Back w his kite. Ask him what his opinion was.

THIS IS NOW THE NO SPIN ZONE. Don't confuse anyone with the Facts.

Lets make make sure the Video that's coming is Not edited.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:35 am 
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Not sure but, is it possible to compare things like turning speed when the kites are flown on different line lengths? Same goes for low end.

Anyway I can´t complain, really stoked to see what the video shows us


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