loco4viento wrote:Even PMU has learned a bit about light wind and editing. A while back he was ranting about how kitesurfing upwind was impossible in under 8 knots. He did a bit of learning and some editing and has lowered his impossibility limit to 7 knots (and has edited in and out a number of stipulations over time). One of these days I think he might lower the impossibility limit to 6 knots!
BigPaul wrote:P.S. UK surf - do I know you?
UKSurf wrote:BigPaul wrote:P.S. UK surf - do I know you?
Why would you know me? I dont hang out with the sock puppets of people involved with the Epic brand.
The problem with designing a ~16m kite (Infinity V2 and V3) for "light winds" is that the luff curve has to be very deep to "milk" as much low end as possible. This causes the kite to sit VERY deep in the window, leading to the problems "Laughingman" outlined, i.e. poor upwind ability, a tendency to yank the rider downwind, extremely poor top-end, and poor ability to absorb gusts.Laughingman wrote:1. (for me) it sat too far back in the window making edging up wind almost impossible unless you were on a light wind specific board
2. and if you were on a light wind board it was easy to lose speed control since edging against it was near impossible … but it still yanked me downwind because it sits so far back in the window.
Objective testing of previous versions of the "Infinity" showed it had inferior power to other kites in light winds: http://www.thekiteboarder.com/2011/05/e ... te-review/davesails7 wrote:I've been riding a 2011 18m Dyno for the last few months and have been really impressed. I've ridden it while others rode…Epic Infinity…, so can compare low end by how I was able to get on the water vs. the others. Who knows what actual wind speeds were up in the air at the kite. I think side by side comparison is much more helpful than endless videos of a kite riding alone on glassy water.
vs. Infinity: Dyno was stable in the air, never fell out of the sky for 4 hours of light wind riding. Two guys with Infinities were struggling to keep their kites in the air most of the time.
The Infinity V3 failed in 8 knots (see below). The V2 performing in 5k? Complete bullshit.Dimitri M wrote: I have video of the Infinity V2 in action from 5 to 10 knots real soon. Did I say 5 knots!!!! No way..... !
SupaEZ wrote: I would have written (Dimitri M) a check right there and then if his kite was better than mine...but it was not. I did get going earlier in the light wind that we had 7-9k max avg 8k. But he needed 7-11kn avg 9k.......which never happened.
SupaEZ wrote:His kite needed more wind to get going.
I was 100 ft away from beach on a full plane in 8k. He was 10 ft away from the beach on a sub-plane working hard not to end up on beach also in 8k. Right before we crossed (dead onshore wind) … Made sure he saw me...i looked into the white of his eyes. Did a 6 ft air forward 1 1/2 transition with kite downloop to toeside and planed off on the other tack
For the short time we were both able to go out i did 5 type jumps/ transitions. Many with looping the kite effortlessly.
He was only able to get one 4ft air back roll transition and landed in an insufficient amount of water. He was then grounded.
End of story.
…the issue here is who is BS "ing" who here about LW performance.
I felt like i was riding against someone with a smaller size kite.....OOOPS i was !
It is IMPOSSIBLE to give a kite more high end without compromising low end. Hence, the Epic Infinity V3 will become even more INFERIOR in light winds.DimitriM wrote:…we are still working on perfecting the High end of the INFINITY v3.
Compared to the Core19m kite, the Epic Infinity V3 was noticeably INFERIOR; it certainly didn't have the "power of a 19m".Dimitri M wrote: Infinity V2 has the power of a 19 meter but turns like a 14 meter.
Dimitri M wrote:Hello Paoloe or should I call you Mr.PVITfrumBYRAM? I wish I knew who I am talking to. You said on your post above that you like my kites but don't like the approach as much!!! What do you mean by that?Poster: PVITfrumBYRAM
....Personally I like your kites, I just don't like the approach as much. That's great you are getting people stoked at how well the kite can fly in such light conditions, but the reality is it was more than 2-4 knots. Maybe it was that light during a lull on the water and that's why you dropped the kite in the water, but there was a steady breeze.
As for the gentleman with the 21 meter foil, he was inexperienced and could barely fly that kite in 8-10 mph on a different day.
I remember that day Chris Moor who is the manager of theKitty Hawk Kites store and probably your boss …. Are you Paulo the one who works and teaches at KHK on RRD!!!
UKSurf wrote:Translation: If you question my over the top claims again I will tell your boss who sells my kites
In response, the following was posted by a knowledgeable local:Dimitri M wrote:3 to 6 knots
SupaEZ wrote: ... the Patrick Air Force Base windmeter reading (is) just a few miles upwind of Dimitri: Wind was SSW 200 degrees...that is why the ocean is so glassy...i should know i live here 30 years. He was out between 2 and 4 pm.... we see clearly that the wind was always more than........... 10 mph .......those are government's wind meters....very accurate...
UKSurf wrote:Dimitri M wrote:The difference from the INFINITY V2 vs the FAT LADY is that the INFINITY v2 turns faster and has better pop. But the power is piratically the same after testing them.
Now the INFINITY V3 is something different.
Why did Momi design an inferior kite for Blade? I honestly think this claiming your kites are superior to everyone else's will only backfire. If it is better at one thing then it will be worse at something else, most people appreciate that kite design these days is about finely balanced trade-offs NOT one kite being better than another.
Kiteus Maximus wrote:Whatever dude. You created me. If you don't like me then stop creating me.
Of course, walking backwards with a kite is not a recognised way of testing its low-end, UNLESS you are making claims that it can fly in "2-4 knots". It would be EASY to test Epic's "2-4 knot" claim by putting up the Infinity in a school hall or similar & walking backwards at the standard walking velocity of 2.7 knots. The lies promoted by EPIC are even more appalling when they are couched in the fake bonhomie, oh so *HILARIOUS* pics of goats, and apparently friendly banter, not to mention the overt aggression and threatening behaviour of the "Kite2Heaven" persona.Kite2Heaven wrote:PMU - you really are stupid if you are resorting to walking backwards with a kite !!! … Otherwise "ALL" wind readings are BULLSHIT just like yourself !!
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