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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:55 am 
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Posts: 603
Hey Fabs,

Your last few posts were a lot more useful than most of our discussion. Nice work!




FabsPH wrote:
FabsPH wrote:
this time maybe



yes I made it ! :thumb:
back to the bs now :argue: :o


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 1773
Location: Miami @ 6" Flat Butter!
lobodomar wrote:
Why is it so hard to swallow the fact an aprox. 16-17m, mid aspect kite will not pull upwind a planing board
as much as a 19m, higher aspect kite ?

As for a non-planing board like a SUP in ULW,
I have no doubt that the Infinity could outperform the 19 Core, since it's lighter and turns faster.
But I also call BS on the 2-4kt (aka 3kt at the kite) claim :naughty:
:thumb: :thumb:
Yes, there is a saying around here through many year what most of the people agreed on:
"THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT",
like a lower displacement engine won't give you the same torque or Pulling Power as the higher,
unless somehow you increase the RPM or like sine-ing the kite like crazy, which is not my style :nono:
I tried all the most advanced and lightest kites in history claiming light wind advantages, but so far
I couldn't find any kite brand which would honestly compete with the Pulling Power
of a higher aspect,
and larger size in light winds regarding my combined kiting & windsurfing experience only in light winds in 29 years.
Seems like so far when I've been testing some recent light wind Inflatable Kites and found,
they could be a compromise even with a higher speed, because the performance can be poor in the other following area:
Upwind
Range
Boosting
Turning Speed
High Bar Pressure in, mid & upper range
Disturbing flutter and vibration at bar in, mid & upper range
Less pulling power compared the same size

DrLW


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:12 am 
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Posts: 719
DrLightWind wrote:
lobodomar wrote:
Why is it so hard to swallow the fact an aprox. 16-17m, mid aspect kite will not pull upwind a planing board as much as a 19m, higher aspect kite ?
But I also call BS on the 2-4kt (aka 3kt at the kite) claim :naughty:
:thumb: :thumb:
Yes, there is a saying around here through many year what most of the people agreed on:
"THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT", like a lower displacement engine won't give you the same torque or Pulling Power as the higher,
unless somehow you increase the RPM or like sine-ing the kite like crazy, which is not my style :nono:
I tried all the most advanced and lightest kites in history claiming light wind advantages, but so far
I couldn't find any kite brand which would honestly compete with the Pulling Power
of a higher aspect,
and larger size in light winds regarding my combined kiting & windsurfing experience only in light winds in 29 years.
Seems like so far when I've been testing some recent light wind Inflatable Kites and found,
they could be a compromise even with a higher speed, because the performance can be poor in the other following area:
Upwind
Range
Boosting
Turning Speed
High Bar Pressure in, mid & upper range
Disturbing flutter and vibration at bar in, mid & upper range
Less pulling power compared the same size

DrLW

It's a common misconception, also promulgated by Epic, to think that sining a kite generates significant power in light winds. It doesn't. In ultra-light winds, sining may buy you enough power to stay on a plane, but at the cost of going off downwind. As Dr LW correctly pointed out, there is "no replacement for displacement". A bigger kite will always have better light wind performance than a smaller kite (making allowances for differences caused by aspect ratio and luff curve etc). OF COURSE a 19m kite will outperform a ~16m kite in TRUE light winds. Similarly, the upcoming batch of 21m inflatables will outperform 19m inflatables in TRUE light winds.

Pumpy ......................... :pump:


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:25 pm 
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Posts: 2689
Dimitri M wrote:
you walking into deeper water so you could start kiting with your NORTH board.


Yes .......i needed about 3 times deeper water than you to start my board

With your 2" fins you needed only about 6 inches of water

With my 5.5" fins i needed only about 15 inches of water....(not belly button height :wink: )

Then i got myself with the help of my kite (not the Freefarce board) to about 30 feet deep of water EZ


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Posts: 4082
Location: OUTER BANKS (NC) USA. Owner of EPICKITES
This is a post that some one did yesterday on another topic about the INFINITY v2 kite that he just purchased.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2372410&p=785216#p785216
Quote:
Today was the first day I got to fly my Infinity V2. I demoed Dimitri's kite just after Christmas and this was the first chance I have had to fly mine. I flew it for 8 hours today (and have all the soreness to show for it). This morning I got to fly some enjoyable light wind (8 to 10 kts with few holes) and then this afternoon right up to the line of being overpowered for a few hours this afternoon (15 to 18kts). I am at Dauphin Island AL, so you can check wind alert for today to verify my wind estimates. I don't want to re-hash my earlier review, but I did want to say that I was very impressed at the range the kite had, and I was very surprised that I was still able to fly it this afternoon. I had no problem staying up wind in 15+ knots. Of course, had there been 15kts when I got there, I probably would have inflated another kite, but it was cool to see and I had a great time. :thumb:
This is a really good light wind kite, and I have a full day of enjoyment to show for it. I am not saying it is any better or any worse than any other kite. I am sure there are many good light wind kites out there, but I can say for sure that this one gets the job done. :bye:


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:32 pm
Posts: 426
Location: Northern Ontario
Wow Supa you have definitely offended a lot of people with this over the top aggression. People have pointed out that you have used Dimitri's trust in you to try and hurt him on a personal level (why???) and that you feel justified to do this. You are upset that people are dicrediting your achievements and have called into question about your depth of a water start. I have found that your claims have surpassed anything that Dimitri has ever stated and I like that his video's don't require editing. He makes a point to show in full undistorted footage his claims while yours are short segments that are quickly edited and show very little but what the person that was using editing software would like to show. You have passed the point of being objective and now just seem bent on being fully malicious. Dimitri's photo's are in poor taste but they are never on a personal level like you have lowered yourself to. I hope that cooler head will prevail on you and that this is not the true Supa. Make ammends Supa and be happy with who you are. You live in a beautiful state with year round kiting..... :thumb: I think that Taut has the best location but I would definitely not complain about a Florida lifestyle!!

James
www.theglobalartist.com

Dimitri I would stop posting into this thread no matter what type of press that this is providing your company. No other brand needs to do this and I honestly believe that long term that this can have some negativity towards your business. You cannot reason with someone who has left all honour in his actions. All that can be achieved here is that Supa will bring you to his level and I honestly believe that is what his end goal is. He cannot compete with the success that you have but he can draw you into a pointless battle (he has done that now) and try to get you to act in a way that will harm your reputation. So what if he calls your marketing hype BS..... so what if he feels that he has beaten you on a LW challenge, and so what if he feels the need to slander your name here on KF. It is slander and we all can see that. I feel sorry for the man and have pity for him on the way that he has conducted himself. It is a shameful way to go about getting his name known but at what extent.... once this thread gets locked or eventually dies away so will Supa. Who at the end of the day really cares as to what he has achieved????


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:29 pm 
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Dimitri M wrote:
Yes you are correct the CORE 19 meter or the FOIL 21 meter has more power then the INFINITY V2 or V3, but the reason the INFINITY V2 & V3 can perform as good as these big monsters is because of its speed
.
Momi and I designed the INFINITY to be very fast so it can generate the power that it needs to by moving it and then parking it once you get the power and you are planning.

I have nothing to hide.


My 19 tube is NOT a monster :wink:
V2-V3 does not perform as good as the 19 Riot XR2LW...in light wind or any wind for that matter
The V2-V3 only gives the ILLUSION of speed....because it is on SHORT 22 meter lines
You may be able to FOOL some about your logic ....but not me
It is an ILLUSION since at your Smackdown V3 and 19 clearly turned and looped just as quick

I can just imagine how SLOW your V3 bucket shaped kite would turn...
... if you made your lines at 27 meters

..and how worse your non-upwind performance would become
(that is why with light onshore wind you stayed on your beloved shorter lines)

For those who do not remember that afternoon..here is the video

Forget the riders...the boards...just FOCUS on the kites
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RkFhVvtJOM


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:47 pm
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ONE THOUSAND POSTS

:happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday:

100 PAGES

A PERFECT 10 POSTS PER PAGE


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:56 pm 
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SupaEZ wrote:
ONE THOUSAND POSTS

:happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday:

100 PAGES

A PERFECT 10 POSTS PER PAGE


Goal unlocked, victory achieved!!

[ding ding ding paching paching paching]


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 3:52 pm
Posts: 193
Location: Chrono-Logic
Pump me up wrote:
It's a common misconception, also promulgated by Epic, to think that sining a kite generates significant power in light winds. It doesn't. In ultra-light winds, sining may buy you enough power to stay on a plane, but at the cost of going off downwind.

Pumpy ......................... :pump:
I agree :thumb: and D might be so good with sining the kite that nobody can replicate, but that means he should fire all his team riders
and pimps for his riding games, cause they're not good enough for epic to reflect their idol :naughty:

H


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