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Trimming the kite...

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Trimming the kite...

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:03 pm

plummet wrote:Here's my 5 cents on kite trimming.

Sure trim your kite to get the optimin, line lengths, AOA and performance. Do that at bar and or kite pigtails.

If you have to trim to reduce power..... your overpowered. Thats the point to put up the next size down.

Sure trim and continue to ride mid session. But you should never put up a kite that you need to trim to reduce power before you start that session. Put up the right size kite kite for the conditions.


Hmm, dont agree here.

When my kites are fully powered, I can ride in light wind (relative to the kitesize).
This is where I have the most "power".

But the sweet spot is a tad higher - as when I depower the kite slightly on the trim, as the wind picks up a bit - then the kite rides with a higher L/D (which is NOT max power), and flies faster and way better to ride in waves now because of that.

Also, because a kite that is sligthly depowered when riding straight - will get a higher AOA when you ride with the waves down the line, so a more depowered trim is preferred here.

So in order to avoid the kite from stalling, and to get better control in the window, I find that kites has to be just a tad depowered on the trim when going straight, in order to be in the perfect sweetspot for their size, when riding waves :thumb:

Although, to some degree this is self regulating - as when you go into your bottom turn where the higher AOA is most evident, you also lean forward and depower the kite so it matches.
More a problem in the cutback where you lean back, when you actually dont want too much power..


I find there are typical a few inches difference between max power (low end), versus the best sweet spot in waves 8)

Having the trim set for too much depower is worse though, true and agree fully Plummet - as the kite will turn slower and slower now, and you can not position the kite, because all focus is on depower and control, instead of waveriding :roll:

So choosing the right kitesize, and not too big, is REALLY important in waves !

:D Peter

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Re: Trimming the kite...

Postby plummet » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:58 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
plummet wrote:Here's my 5 cents on kite trimming.

Sure trim your kite to get the optimin, line lengths, AOA and performance. Do that at bar and or kite pigtails.

If you have to trim to reduce power..... your overpowered. Thats the point to put up the next size down.

Sure trim and continue to ride mid session. But you should never put up a kite that you need to trim to reduce power before you start that session. Put up the right size kite kite for the conditions.


Hmm, dont agree here.

When my kites are fully powered, I can ride in light wind (relative to the kitesize).
This is where I have the most "power".

But the sweet spot is a tad higher - as when I depower the kite slightly on the trim, as the wind picks up a bit - then the kite rides with a higher L/D (which is NOT max power), and flies faster and way better to ride in waves now because of that.

Also, because a kite that is sligthly depowered when riding straight - will get a higher AOA when you ride with the waves down the line, so a more depowered trim is preferred here.

So in order to avoid the kite from stalling, and to get better control in the window, I find that kites has to be just a tad depowered on the trim when going straight, in order to be in the perfect sweetspot for their size, when riding waves :thumb:

Although, to some degree this is self regulating - as when you go into your bottom turn where the higher AOA is most evident, you also lean forward and depower the kite so it matches.
More a problem in the cutback where you lean back, when you actually dont want too much power..


I find there are typical a few inches difference between max power (low end), versus the best sweet spot in waves 8)

Having the trim set for too much depower is worse though, true and agree fully Plummet - as the kite will turn slower and slower now, and you can not position the kite, because all focus is on depower and control, instead of waveriding :roll:

So choosing the right kitesize, and not too big, is REALLY important in waves !

:D Peter

Thats a different scenario too what i am talking about. you are trimming to get the optimal performance rather than to reduce the power of a too powered kite. You are not over powered to start with.

My statement is this. If you HAVE to pull trim on to reduce power you are over powered. Put up a smaller kite. You shouldn't be doing this at the start of a session. That indicates that you have selected the wrong kite.

EG. I start reach for the trim on my 13m around 20-knots. At 20 knots my 10m is perfectly powered. around 25- knots i reach for the trim on my 10m...at 25 knots my 8m is sweetly powered,,,, at 33-35 i'm looking to trim my 8m at that stage my 6m is in the zone.

I should not/do not put up the 13m in 20+ knots trim and ride.

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Re: Trimming the kite...

Postby TheJoe » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:38 pm

plummet wrote:
Peter_Frank wrote:
plummet wrote:Here's my 5 cents on kite trimming.

Sure trim your kite to get the optimin, line lengths, AOA and performance. Do that at bar and or kite pigtails.

If you have to trim to reduce power..... your overpowered. Thats the point to put up the next size down.

Sure trim and continue to ride mid session. But you should never put up a kite that you need to trim to reduce power before you start that session. Put up the right size kite kite for the conditions.


Hmm, dont agree here.

When my kites are fully powered, I can ride in light wind (relative to the kitesize).
This is where I have the most "power".

But the sweet spot is a tad higher - as when I depower the kite slightly on the trim, as the wind picks up a bit - then the kite rides with a higher L/D (which is NOT max power), and flies faster and way better to ride in waves now because of that.

Also, because a kite that is sligthly depowered when riding straight - will get a higher AOA when you ride with the waves down the line, so a more depowered trim is preferred here.

So in order to avoid the kite from stalling, and to get better control in the window, I find that kites has to be just a tad depowered on the trim when going straight, in order to be in the perfect sweetspot for their size, when riding waves :thumb:

Although, to some degree this is self regulating - as when you go into your bottom turn where the higher AOA is most evident, you also lean forward and depower the kite so it matches.
More a problem in the cutback where you lean back, when you actually dont want too much power..


I find there are typical a few inches difference between max power (low end), versus the best sweet spot in waves 8)

Having the trim set for too much depower is worse though, true and agree fully Plummet - as the kite will turn slower and slower now, and you can not position the kite, because all focus is on depower and control, instead of waveriding :roll:

So choosing the right kitesize, and not too big, is REALLY important in waves !

:D Peter

Thats a different scenario too what i am talking about. you are trimming to get the optimal performance rather than to reduce the power of a too powered kite. You are not over powered to start with.

My statement is this. If you HAVE to pull trim on to reduce power you are over powered. Put up a smaller kite. You shouldn't be doing this at the start of a session. That indicates that you have selected the wrong kite.

EG. I start reach for the trim on my 13m around 20-knots. At 20 knots my 10m is perfectly powered. around 25- knots i reach for the trim on my 10m...at 25 knots my 8m is sweetly powered,,,, at 33-35 i'm looking to trim my 8m at that stage my 6m is in the zone.

I should not/do not put up the 13m in 20+ knots trim and ride.


I agree with Plummet. I don't think your overpowered Peter but just powered. Overpowered is when you have little to no control over your board speed. When no matter how hard you edge you just get dragged downwind.

I think a lot of factors go into when people think they are overpowered and most of it is personal reference. For most new riders it's usually bad posture and tech or poor trimming. Personal strength all so can play a roll in feeling overpowered. Lets all so not forget that a kites bar pressure plays a big roll on what we conceive to be power.

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Re: Trimming the kite...

Postby zact » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:13 am

Have any of you tried telltales to determine the optimum AoA?

http://kiteboardbc.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176&p=946&hilit=telltale#p946

How do they compare to what you perceive as the optimum?

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Re: Trimming the kite...

Postby rtz » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:13 am


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Re: Trimming the kite...

Postby Westozzy » Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:31 am

Agree with plummet if I have to reach for the depower then I will consider going in. I will then commit to edge harder and maybe pull in a couple of cm. If I am still struggling then its time to change. Depends on what mood you are in to and what your body is telling you. Sometimes I just say stuff it and boost higher.

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Re: Trimming the kite...

Postby 14ToeSide » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:21 pm

Eppo,

It's good to see you on here. I have enjoyed reading your posts on Seabreeze for a couple of years. I have gotten a lot of unbiased info that has been spot on on gear there. You are not flying Rebels anymore?

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Re: Trimming the kite...

Postby dyyylan » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:34 pm

Disagree with plummet 100%

I start reaching for depower on my 12m at about 14 knots. Should I put up a smaller kite? No. I reach for more depower at 16 knots. Do I need to put up a smaller kite? Again, no. I reach for my last bit of depower around 20 knots. Still riding comfortably.

Trimming is not hard, I don't understand why this thread even exists. If you're overpowered when you're sheeted in, pull some depower rope. The end

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Re: Trimming the kite...

Postby TheJoe » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:36 pm

dyyylan wrote:Disagree with plummet 100%

I start reaching for depower on my 12m at about 14 knots. Should I put up a smaller kite? No. I reach for more depower at 16 knots. Do I need to put up a smaller kite? Again, no. I reach for my last bit of depower around 20 knots. Still riding comfortably.

Trimming is not hard, I don't understand why this thread even exists. If you're overpowered when you're sheeted in, pull some depower rope. The end


This is the problem with using the term depower. If you are over powered then yes you need a smaller kite. What your talking about is trimming your kite for the wind. I don't want to start an argument this. I'm just saying.

We trim to get the optimal angle of attack. Over sheeted out and you the kite sits to deep and creates a lot of bar pressure. This makes people think the kite is overpowered it actually is not. Over sheeted in and the kite flies too far forward making it feel like you don't have enough power.
Both of these create and inefficient air flow over the kite.

Air flow and kite give you power not trimming. Trimming is just there to take the most advantage of it.

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Re: Trimming the kite...

Postby frankm1960 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:30 am

dyyylan wrote:Disagree with plummet 100%

I start reaching for depower on my 12m at about 14 knots. Should I put up a smaller kite? No. I reach for more depower at 16 knots. Do I need to put up a smaller kite? Again, no. I reach for my last bit of depower around 20 knots. Still riding comfortably.

Trimming is not hard, I don't understand why this thread even exists. If you're overpowered when you're sheeted in, pull some depower rope. The end



Pulling in the trim strap when there's too much wind or letting it out when the winds die down... that's not what this thread is about.

Here's a scenario.... you're nicely powered on your 12m, beam reach, both hands on bar, heals dug in, plenty of wind but not too much, haven't touched your depower strap at all... every things perfect... bar in perfect position from CL etc... at this point ask yourself... am I getting as much out of this kite as I can be?... is it flying as efficient as I can make it? are you sure? how do you know?

Has nothing to do with what Plummet started back there with depower strap talk...although I agree in part with what he said... but just not what this thread was started for. Check the OP's post.


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