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 Post subject: Video - Dragging Caused By Crossed Kite Lines
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:00 pm 
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The video caption blames the incident on a poor kite release but from the look of things the lines were crossed on the kite. That is a front line was accidentally connected to a rear attachment on the kite or vis versa resulting in crossed lines and a soon to be out of control kite. It is one of the best videos I have seen, thankfully without injuries apparently. When your lines are crossed, the kite doesn't want to bite into the wind initially and fly up but bumps and hesitates. This is a tip off to both an informed kite launcher and to the kiter himself. Once released the kite drifts down into the window, the lines tighten up and the kite flies at light speed 180 degrees to the other side of the window. The kiter is usually dragged at high speed as well.

This has resulted in fatalities and serious injuries since near the start of the sport. "Kook-proof" or polar line connectors in theory should have ended this problem. The guy is flying a North kite, I think North was one of the first to use polar connectors years ago. Still, people often will find a way of screwing things up. ANY kite can have uncontrolled looping. The first serious incident I saw over ten years ago involved a two line kite.


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Setup a routine for rigging and checking that you are comfortable with and stick with it. Preflight your kite and lines before riding. ANYTHING that makes your lines of unequal length tells your kite you want to turn, the more unequal the length, the harder and more violent the turn. Crossed line attachment creates a radical turn. Other things that impact line length include a line tangle, wrapped wing tip, seized pulley, stick or object stuck in the lines, tangle on your bar or on you, etc. etc..

So called "Death Looping" is caused by unequal line lengths as well and can be very hard to stop out once it starts. Depowering may no longer work due to twisting and if the kiter is tangled he can't release the kite. The looping can continue pulling the kiter at speed sometimes lofting him out of the water until something breaks. A number of kiters have been killed by looping kites over the years.

Kite helpers should look down the lines to see that they form nice "V's" and are free of tangles. The kite should bite into the air and want to fly if it is rigged right, you are in the correct position relative to the wind window and there is enough wind. If the kite bumps and stalls, put it down and check the kite and lines again.

It is EASY to avoid launching with crossed lines, but you have to go at things correctly.



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Last edited by RickI on Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Video - Dragging Caused By Crossed Kite Lines
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:17 pm 
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Rick, maybe you should emphasize, that here we are not talking about right-left crossed lines, but front/rear crossed lines :o

I've seen exactly the same happen, with an injury as a result, on a kite that were one of the last ones to change to polar connectors.

And the kitesurfer, nor the launcher, will hardly ever notice - as it is not very evident and everything "looks" fine :roll:

Any knowledge of WHY they were crossed in this case ?

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Video - Dragging Caused By Crossed Kite Lines
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:46 pm 
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Crossed or not, that guy is one of the worst kite launchers EVER.


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 Post subject: Re: Video - Dragging Caused By Crossed Kite Lines
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Good point Peter, I made an insert per your suggestion. I have known folks to remove polar connectors because ... have no idea why. It really pays to use them and preflight your gear. I was looking for something else on youtube and came across the video clip. Can anyone summarize what was being said in the background? The kiter was lucky, it looks like a pretty strong wind day. Other guys have just smashed in launching with crossed lines.

Brent, the thing with the crossed lines is it doesn't fly right in the first place. It is reluctant to take off as the lines are already trying to force it into a radical turn. It makes a bad kite launcher, worse in effect. It pays to only use folks who know what to do and look for in launching a kite who also understand hand signals.

There have been a bunch of threads about crossed lines on here. Here is one from 2006:

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2328817


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 Post subject: Re: Video - Dragging Caused By Crossed Kite Lines
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:29 pm 
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sounds like the guys commenting saw what is coming and didn't help? If so, shame on them.


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 Post subject: Re: Video - Dragging Caused By Crossed Kite Lines
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:56 pm 
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Help people launch every day there wind,surfshop on the beach,refuse to launch unless one hand on QR ,if this guy had done this he could have QR in a split second,TONY


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 Post subject: Re: Video - Dragging Caused By Crossed Kite Lines
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:48 pm 
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I am sure he had his board in his hand!


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 Post subject: Re: Video - Dragging Caused By Crossed Kite Lines
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:56 pm 
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I'm sorry but bot the kiter and the launcher are at fault in this. They look like they are both inexperienced. If you give the thumbs up there should be little pull from the kite to begin with since it will be at the edged of the window. I routinely launch one handed in strong wind with no problems. I all so will not let some one launch me unless they know what they are doing. If I don't have someone I feel safe with I will just self launch.

Oh and people double check your lines. It only takes a second to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Video - Dragging Caused By Crossed Kite Lines
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:26 pm 
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RickI wrote:
Good point Peter, I made an insert per your suggestion. I have known folks to remove polar connectors because ... have no idea why. It really pays to use them and preflight your gear. I was looking for something else on youtube and came across the video clip. Can anyone summarize what was being said in the background? The kiter was lucky, it looks like a pretty strong wind day. Other guys have just smashed in launching with crossed lines.

Brent, the thing with the crossed lines is it doesn't fly right in the first place. It is reluctant to take off as the lines are already trying to force it into a radical turn. It makes a bad kite launcher, worse in effect. It pays to only use folks who know what to do and look for in launching a kite who also understand hand signals.

There have been a bunch of threads about crossed lines on here. Here is one from 2006:

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2328817


They are saying:

Guys with camera to guy holding the kite:

0.03"Oh Rolf, what are you doing with that thing in your hands? (joking)"
0.08 "What is that thing?"
0.09 "Throw it up in the air"
0.09-0.25 laughing and dunno what the hell they are saying to eachother
0.26 "Smile for the camera"
0.28 "Keep on laughing"
0.30 "Are you throwing it up in the air or what?" other guy "Just let it go man"
0.42 Rolf throws the kite up in the air
0.49 "Seems like you didn't do that the right way, Rolf!"
0.51 (Rolf says) Not good!!?

To me it seems like Rolf is taking a lesson and the guys holding the camera (seem to be douchebags} atleast have no knowledge about kitesurfing whatsoever, dunno about "Rolf" but I think it is his first lesson as well.

It is also possible they bought a kite of ebay and are just starting without the lessons ofcourse


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 Post subject: Re: Video - Dragging Caused By Crossed Kite Lines
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:53 am 
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Thank you for the detailed translation kazama-fury. It helps fill in the picture a bit more, it is much appreciated. Some have concluded this was caused by launching too high in the wind window (a cold stalling launch vs. a hot one) combined with oversheeting and poor bar control. This is possible I suppose but looking at everything including how the kite behaved before and after flying across the sky suggests crossed lines to me. When there have been fatalities and severe accidents involving crossed lines in the past you can visualize something like this only with hard impacts along the way. Crossed lines are really something to avoid. The good news is that they are easy to avoid through the use of polar connectors and preflighting.

Quote:
They are saying:

Guys with camera to guy holding the kite:

0.03"Oh Rolf, what are you doing with that thing in your hands? (joking)"
0.08 "What is that thing?"
0.09 "Throw it up in the air"
0.09-0.25 laughing and dunno what the hell they are saying to eachother
0.26 "Smile for the camera"
0.28 "Keep on laughing"
0.30 "Are you throwing it up in the air or what?" other guy "Just let it go man"
0.42 Rolf throws the kite up in the air
0.49 "Seems like you didn't do that the right way, Rolf!"
0.51 (Rolf says) Not good!!?

To me it seems like Rolf is taking a lesson and the guys holding the camera (seem to be douchebags} atleast have no knowledge about kitesurfing whatsoever, dunno about "Rolf" but I think it is his first lesson as well.

It is also possible they bought a kite of ebay and are just starting without the lessons ofcourse


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