That would be ideal. All-rounders are great if you like doing all those disciplines. no reason to go in one direction with your riding if you can and want to do it all . It's not very practical to buy three quivers, and if you have skill you can rip with an all-rounder(except racing). That said, my smallest kite is a switch method because waves is all I need it for.

Meh. Everyone who says upwind is a distant 25th in order of importance is FOS. A lot of wave riding is downwind carving, and unless you are willing to pay for 5 minutes of straight wave shredding with 25 minutes of fighting and scratching and clawing your way back upwind to do it again, or packing your sh@t up and having someone pick you up a couple miles downwind, upwind is important. It's at least a solid third.

i may be full of shit but you are very full of yourself
don't tell me how i like to ride or what i want from a kite

a**hole

I'd agree with this. In decent surf you can travel a long way downwind. The other alternative is to have a lot of power by putting up a bigger kite. But then you lose something in the surf.

Also I agree with the above, lets keep it civil, each to their own in the end. I just know from years of trying to buy a kite that does everything, it eventually does nothing well. Rather buy a specific kite, and let the kite decide how you should kite rather than trying to push the kite to areas it doesn't want to go. The stoke factor is so much better when you are in tune with the kites purpose. That's just my position of course.

if i was a kite designer (well i designed and sewed up one LEI but it took like 3 months and was shit lol), i would start with a shape that when dropped from 100ft in no wind/with no lines parachuted down more rather than hindenberging nose down after 0.5 seconds.

That is a great idea. Not sure how many kites does that anymore, but I have seen plenty of the kites that once all lines go slack they look like really want to fall forward, so I would agree that is a good one.

Flight Time: Do you really think the upwind ability is an issue on most modern kites? I cannot even remember the last time I thought oh I wish this kite would go upwind a little better. It is a given, and it still has nothing to do with actually riding the wave to do.

No, it has nothing to do with riding the wave. Nor has relaunching. But if the kite is not able to relaunch then the session can end faster than you want. And if it cant go upwind then you dont get as many waves as you want. So you need a couple of things not just one. But I think we are pretty much aligned all of us what caristica we would like the specific kite to have. And I think the kitedesigners agree with us too The finance departments dont. The sport is still a niche sport and the more specific they make the kite, the smaler the niche But beacuse the sport is much more than than just a sport - its a passion. Therefore we will not go for that allround freeride kite, but want that specific kite in that specific size. And whats up with the sizes ? Waves kite are often sold out in the small sizes, but you can get it in 12m ? Are you f... Kiddin. Cant they predict and plan the production better ? And the jump between sizes are also sometimes a big questionmark ??

Agree fully

IMO the kite means almost nothing at all, compared to other factors, regarding upwind ability - the difference will not be noticeable really.
But the BOARD is essential - and you need a board that goes upwind well, as it is not really the kite that matters much, but the board makes a huge difference in upwind ability.

Size, rockerline, tailkick, edges etc etc.

Fortunately, most dont want too slow boards today (like earlier years where kitepower was used more), so they actually go upwind quite well - even if we just choose our preferred waveboard without thinking of upwind ability

Even the most low AR kites today, go upwind easy IMO

So no, I dont agree that upwind ability is important whatsoever, in wavekitedesign.

But I agree that upwind ability in general, is one of the really important parameters, one of the top on the list.
It is the board though, and not the kite IMO, that makes by far the most difference here

Peter

I like the way some people can disagree and present a rational explanation for their point of view, like human beings, and some other people get all butthurt like they are in elementary school and call people assholes. God bless diversity!

I guess that depends where and how you ride. On OBX most people do not worry much about upwind in the ocean, because we rarely ever do it. The rest of the time it is 5-15 mile downwinders. If I ask my friends "I know, how about we just stay in place and not down wind", they will look at me as if I asked them to come over and help me move, and then laugh. OK we are spoiled and lazy. Where I have ridden on the West coast, it did not seem to be much of an issue either because it was usually fully lit conditions. I could see if you ride a point break especially in lighter conditions where this would be a more important trait. I have never been to Venice Florida, but my guess would be limited beach access for downwinders and lighter conditions, probably hugging the waves around inlets or jetties and making your perspective very different.