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 Post subject: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:52 pm 
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Location: Rome (Italy)
Hy guys,
I'm very keen on this new surfboard shape..but here in Italy it's actually impossible to find and try out a Vanguard...so I was thinking about the new RRD whose shape seems to be very closed to the famous sister...
Have someone had the chance to try out the Cotan? Any impression? Any comparison with vanguard?


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 Post subject: Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:49 am 
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Hit up the guys at TheCornershop www.thecornershop.fr/ they can help you out with a Vanguard. The cotan is another attempt that completely missed the design concepts behind the Vanguard.


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 Post subject: Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:13 am 
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sckitesurf wrote:
Hit up the guys at TheCornershop www.thecornershop.fr/ they can help you out with a Vanguard. The cotan is another attempt that completely missed the design concepts behind the Vanguard.


Please elaberate on "missing the design concept" RRD, Slingshot, North etc.


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 Post subject: Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:24 pm 
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Location: Imperial Beach, CA
madworld wrote:
sckitesurf wrote:
Hit up the guys at TheCornershop www.thecornershop.fr/ they can help you out with a Vanguard. The cotan is another attempt that completely missed the design concepts behind the Vanguard.


Please elaberate on "missing the design concept" RRD, Slingshot, North etc.


I have the Vanguard but have only seen the others you mention in the adverts. The Vanguard's hull is where I see the biggest difference. While the Vanguard has a very unique channel through the bottom, the others look flat. The "modern planning hull," as Tomo calls it, coupled with the parallel outline is what makes the Vanguard so unique. The board planes much faster than other boards with equal volume.
"Tufflite" also makes exact replicas of most popular surfboard shapes. And, although the construction held up great for kiting, the boards did not perform as well as the originals. They felt corky/stiff.
So, there is more to a board than the outline.


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 Post subject: Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:40 am
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iblocalsurfer wrote:
madworld wrote:
sckitesurf wrote:
Hit up the guys at TheCornershop www.thecornershop.fr/ they can help you out with a Vanguard. The cotan is another attempt that completely missed the design concepts behind the Vanguard.


Please elaberate on "missing the design concept" RRD, Slingshot, North etc.


I have the Vanguard but have only seen the others you mention in the adverts. The Vanguard's hull is where I see the biggest difference. While the Vanguard has a very unique channel through the bottom, the others look flat. The "modern planning hull," as Tomo calls it, coupled with the parallel outline is what makes the Vanguard so unique. The board planes much faster than other boards with equal volume.
"Tufflite" also makes exact replicas of most popular surfboard shapes. And, although the construction held up great for kiting, the boards did not perform as well as the originals. They felt corky/stiff.
So, there is more to a board than the outline.


+1 I was really hoping that Sky (North) would understand that the massive single concave really is a crucial element to the design but the whip and pro have the same amount of concave as any other average board.


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 Post subject: Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:54 am 
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Location: Malibu
madworld wrote:
sckitesurf wrote:
Hit up the guys at TheCornershop www.thecornershop.fr/ they can help you out with a Vanguard. The cotan is another attempt that completely missed the design concepts behind the Vanguard.


Please elaberate on "missing the design concept" RRD, Slingshot, North etc.


Just hype


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 Post subject: Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:00 pm 
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Location: Hamburg, Germany
sckitesurf wrote:
...The cotan is another attempt that completely missed the design concepts behind the Vanguard.

Cool, so you have tried it already? Or at least seen it up close? I haven´t, only some pics and the gleiten.tv video. From what I can see, they do at least they look quite similar. Maybe you could elaborate on your precise insight info?

Very nice product video by the way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jQRvcpghQc


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 Post subject: Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:16 pm 
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Location: Imperial Beach, CA
Here is a video that shows the Vanguard up close, including the contours of the bottom and a thorough explanation of how it works. (@ 2:00)

http://www.shredshow.com/home/category/ ... 0surfboard


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 Post subject: Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:36 pm 
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Location: Malibu
ulx wrote:
sckitesurf wrote:
...The cotan is another attempt that completely missed the design concepts behind the Vanguard.

Cool, so you have tried it already? Or at least seen it up close? I haven´t, only some pics and the gleiten.tv video. From what I can see, they do at least they look quite similar. Maybe you could elaborate on your precise insight info?

Very nice product video by the way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jQRvcpghQc



The product video of the Cotan pretty much sums it up. All these boards (vanguard included) are simply Cut-off nose and tail surfboards. Some with one type of hull concave and some with another. All of this has been seen before in non cut off boards. Take a Don Johnson mini gun and cut off the tail and tip.... you will have the same thing.

I'd say the big advantage of these boards is that they are easier to flip backwards to ride over kelp backwards. I'd recommend the cotan over the vanguard simply for the construction. FCS fin boxes just are not unto the forces of kitesurfing. The Futures with larger futures fin boxes are going to be stronger and you can also use Elevon fins that are only available in futures.


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 Post subject: Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:34 am
Posts: 180
Honestly save some dollars and go get on a vanguard.
Its the real thing everyone is trying to copy. It is priced very well compared to other kite models and actually works.

https://vimeo.com/112225080


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