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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:45 pm 
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sometimes shops will buy more inventory at an increased discount mid season. That's where you start seeing sales and mark downs larger then 30%.

Depends on the shop, how they run their business, when they buy their inventory and what the rep's for the brands they buy are willing to do for them.

case in point, larger then 30% discounts are common at the end of season. I think many times the shop is still making a small margin on these types of sales.


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:35 pm 
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Bottom line 30% max,if you over stock,you may have to discount up to 30% to shift last stock,otherwise your stuck,at end of year new kites arrive if kite company has a lot of stock from previous year,they give you an extra 30% which you pass on to your customers,but most of this stock is sold in bulk to big kite shops,so small shops get very little if any,my shop sells scooters skate boards bmx,;i am involved in local skate park,to try and give back a little,for local kids to enjoy,its keeps them off the streets and out of trouble,most take up surfing,kitesurfing,sup,etc,so local shop is important ,buy local,TONY


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:32 pm 
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Location: Utah ish
w_ndrunner wrote:

Tony,

for the past four years, the shop that I patronize has year end kite sales and the savings have been more than 30%, so what would be the incentive for a store to sell at a loss...

given that the store is still in business does that mean they make very very close to 30% on most item allowing them to sell some items at a loss to gain a broader customer base who in the future will buy at the 30% mark up price...

windr


This means the shop is losing money on the Item..This is how it works. You the shop pay 1000 dollars from a company for a kite to sell. You charge 1300 for the kite. (almost all distributors charge the dealer 30% less then retail for their items)..What they stock and how much of it may effect their margins slightly but only by a percent or two. The shop then works their ass off to sell the kite, and lets say they do not.

The new model year comes around and they still have the kite, and the start marking it down trying to make ANY profit what so ever off it,,,Then at some point the retailer has to make a call. Do I allow a 1000 dollars worth of stock sit and decrease in value or do I take a hit on it to use that 1000 dollars to fund new product that I may make money off of and keep my doors open for one more year......

When you get a item at 40% off the store eats that 10% there is no magic here, No shop is ripping you off, they take the hit and hope you will thik of them next time and then they can make the 10% they lost back. The store needs to sell items at a t least 20% mark up to stay alive and open.

Auto parts are a different story. they have a different margin because of reuse,(core charges rebuilds, plus dishonest shops reusing parts after a coat of pant etc. Plus Millions of people own and use cars while only thousands are kiters so making a 1000 dollar part in kiting cost 500 then gets 20 percent at the distributor to import, cover fees (shipping, and import taxes mostly) then 30% at the retailer. If it sells for less then 20% it cost them money becuase you need about 20% margins to keep the lights on and the doors open, in the end you are lucky to make 10% if every thing sells and such. A 1000 dollar part in the auto industry cost about 300 so there is much more room for savings, because of the numbers made at a time.

Please support your local shop. Mine bust ass to keep beaches open, trains new kiters to be safe, promote brands that have solid reputations...But of coarse they could not make it alone as a kite shop..They have to also sell Para gliders, and lessons, as well as big boy toys, speed wings powered skateboards and such..and even then they only make about a 5% profit a year, just enough to pay the employees and the owners....

Mostly because of internet sales that do not stock and drop ship from the manufactor at a smaller profit margin more like 20% so you save 10% but they do not take the risk of having unsold items..

If you really want good deals Buy used gear from people that are going to buy new gear from shops.

Stretching a shop out so it loses money and trying to use the Kiteforum.com so you can save a few hundred while putting your local shop under seems like weak sauce to me... Look at the ads from people trying to get you to spend money with them all over this place...

I have tons of 2012 North gear for sale PM me for list and prices.


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:38 pm 
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w_ndrunner wrote:
once the actual dealer cost is established and known then the buyer can negotiate a reasonable mark up between 4 and 9 percent...
windr

:lol: :lol: :lol:

What planet are you from where a 4-9% markup in business is even worth doing? What do you do for a living?
Plummer?
Doctor?
Gas Pumper?
Do you operate on 4 - 9% profit margins? Hell no. That's probably not even enough to pay your monthly nut or keep the lights on.

If you had any business sense, you'd realise just how insulting your comment is.

This "negotiate" everything has got to stop. Not every business is a third world country selling trinkets on the beach or a flea market. Go into any other kind of retail store........hell go into Wally World and tell them that you're willing to pay 4-9% above cost because you feel that's reasonable.
You'll be escorted outside rather quickly.

Now I'm not trying to get into a bash session, but the public's increasing sense of entitlement to know a business' cost is complete bullshit. If you work or have worked in any area of retail, you'd know where I'm coming from. The "bad economy" bs fluffed all over the evening news has only thrown gas on the fire too. People go in with the attitude that everyone selling something is rotting on the vine and need every cent possible to make a go of things.

Retail is a tough enough business these days, especially with the internet. My point here (there is one I assure you!) is that respect should be given to a good local business and their efforts to make a living. The benefits of a good local dealer far outweigh the few bucks you can save by buying something online most of the time. Bear this in mind when buying something that WILL require service, warranty or instruction. You'll thank me later.

Rant over.
:cool2:


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:45 pm 
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POACHER wrote:
w_ndrunner wrote:
once the actual dealer cost is established and known then the buyer can negotiate a reasonable mark up between 4 and 9 percent...
windr

:lol: :lol: :lol:

What planet are you from where a 4-9% markup in business is even worth doing? What do you do for a living?
Plummer?
Doctor?
Gas Pumper?
Do you operate on 4 - 9% profit margins? Hell no. That's probably not even enough to pay your monthly nut or keep the lights on.

If you had any business sense, you'd realise just how insulting your comment is.

This "negotiate" everything has got to stop. Not every business is a third world country selling trinkets on the beach or a flea market. Go into any other kind of retail store........hell go into Wally World and tell them that you're willing to pay 4-9% above cost because you feel that's reasonable.
You'll be escorted outside rather quickly.

Now I'm not trying to get into a bash session, but the public's increasing sense of entitlement to know a business' cost is complete bullshit. If you work or have worked in any area of retail, you'd know where I'm coming from. The "bad economy" bs fluffed all over the evening news has only thrown gas on the fire too. People go in with the attitude that everyone selling something is rotting on the vine and need every cent possible to make a go of things.

Retail is a tough enough business these days, especially with the internet. My point here (there is one I assure you!) is that respect should be given to a good local business and their efforts to make a living. The benefits of a good local dealer far outweigh the few bucks you can save by buying something online most of the time. Bear this in mind when buying something that WILL require service, warranty or instruction. You'll thank me later.

Rant over.
:cool2:

Very well put Poacher!


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:27 am
Posts: 325
POACHER wrote:
w_ndrunner wrote:
once the actual dealer cost is established and known then the buyer can negotiate a reasonable mark up between 4 and 9 percent...
windr

:lol: :lol: :lol:

What planet are you from where a 4-9% markup in business is even worth doing? What do you do for a living?
Plummer?
Doctor?
Gas Pumper?
Do you operate on 4 - 9% profit margins? Hell no. That's probably not even enough to pay your monthly nut or keep the lights on.

If you had any business sense, you'd realise just how insulting your comment is.

This "negotiate" everything has got to stop. Not every business is a third world country selling trinkets on the beach or a flea market. Go into any other kind of retail store........hell go into Wally World and tell them that you're willing to pay 4-9% above cost because you feel that's reasonable.
You'll be escorted outside rather quickly.

Now I'm not trying to get into a bash session, but the public's increasing sense of entitlement to know a business' cost is complete bullshit. If you work or have worked in any area of retail, you'd know where I'm coming from. The "bad economy" bs fluffed all over the evening news has only thrown gas on the fire too. People go in with the attitude that everyone selling something is rotting on the vine and need every cent possible to make a go of things.

Retail is a tough enough business these days, especially with the internet. My point here (there is one I assure you!) is that respect should be given to a good local business and their efforts to make a living. The benefits of a good local dealer far outweigh the few bucks you can save by buying something online most of the time. Bear this in mind when buying something that WILL require service, warranty or instruction. You'll thank me later.

Rant over.
:cool2:



Agreed, well said


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:08 pm 
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w_ndrunner wrote:
once the actual dealer cost is established and known then the buyer can negotiate a reasonable mark up between 4 and 9 percent...


I totally agree with you. If you run a kite shop you should not do it to make money, you should do it because you enjoy it. You should not rely on selling kites to make a living, they should have an extra job ontop of it.


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:25 pm 
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around here almost all/lot´s of brand dealers do not do not own a shop

i´ll pay in advance for the kite, the guy place the order and deal with the paper work, i´ll wait 3 or 4 weeks or maybe more (as there is no stock) and that´s it

where is the risk of this kind of operation and how much does this worth?

9% of profit margin is perfectly reasonable to me


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:26 am
Posts: 120
Location: Delray Beach, FL
Kiters travel alot. When you find a shop/salesperson/owner in the world you like stick with them. Like me, spent maybe $10 K over the years at the same shop, and that is how you get good retail pricing, repeat business baby and they take care of you and your questions.


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:00 pm 
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Tiago1973 wrote:
around here almost all/lot´s of brand dealers do not do not own a shop

i´ll pay in advance for the kite, the guy place the order and deal with the paper work, i´ll wait 3 or 4 weeks or maybe more (as there is no stock) and that´s it

where is the risk of this kind of operation and how much does this worth?

9% of profit margin is perfectly reasonable to me

Not really your conventional retail business model...

What I'm referencing is the brick and mortar shop with inventory, employees, insurance, taxes, utilities and a mortgage. I believe the op is as well. 4-9% isn't going to get it done.

It sounds like your dealer type is becoming more and more commonplace in kiting because of the already small margins involved.

I don't think it would be a good thing for kiting to turn into an online or non-stocking dealer type of sport. But that's my opinion......I'm not getting out of bed for anything less than 20%. Love the sport or not, it's still has to put food on my plate. :cool2:

Cheers!


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