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 Post subject: Re: Naish mid-season catalog reveals no-strut kite!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:25 pm 
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tautologies wrote:
for instance the Park will have slightly more range than the Ride (3 vs 2 struts),


There are no "specs" up for the new Ride but the previous one's specs listed it having about 2 knots more range than the Park.


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 Post subject: Re: Naish mid-season catalog reveals no-strut kite!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:28 pm 
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tautologies wrote:
...The funny thing to me is when posters like Aumm makes statements about me proving the jumping of the kite..I'm not sure how to respond since I have made no claim on its jumping ability..I know nothing about that...but then it turns out they have not really tried the kite either....

so, why the rest of us should prefer your opinion over Aummm's? since you have more posts or because we think you are the brands promoter?
you are refusing to name yourself as brands pimp, so may be you are suffering under the graphomania or logorrhoea. whatever it is you are really succeeding to make any thread mentioning "naish" all about you.
you don't have to wright so many long posts. just show us one good video. but you don't have it...
tautologies wrote:
...I am going to buy the Draft for sure, but I can.....

do you really mean buy it for money or barter it for the naish promotion on the kf? :D


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 Post subject: Re: Naish mid-season catalog reveals no-strut kite!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:41 pm 
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eree wrote:
tautologies wrote:
...The funny thing to me is when posters like Aumm makes statements about me proving the jumping of the kite..I'm not sure how to respond since I have made no claim on its jumping ability..I know nothing about that...but then it turns out they have not really tried the kite either....

so, why the rest of us should prefer your opinion over Aummm's? since you have more posts or because we think you are the brands promoter?
you are refusing to name yourself as brands pimp, so may be you are suffering under the graphomania or logorrhoea. whatever it is you are really succeeding to make any thread mentioning "naish" all about you.
you don't have to wright so many long posts. just show us one good video. but you don't have it...
tautologies wrote:
...I am going to buy the Draft for sure, but I can.....

do you really mean buy it for money or barter it for the naish promotion on the kf? :D



Rest of us...?!


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 Post subject: Re: Naish mid-season catalog reveals no-strut kite!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:42 pm 
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eree wrote:
so, why the rest of us should prefer your opinion over Aummm's? since you have more posts or because we think you are the brands promoter?
you are refusing to name yourself as brands pimp, so may be you are suffering under the graphomania or logorrhoea. whatever it is you are really succeeding to make any thread mentioning "naish" all about you.
you don't have to wright so many long posts. just show us one good video. but you don't have it...


The royal we huh? Not bad.
All I have said was Aumms experience with the BRM is not that same as mine...or some of the other guys that have or have not ridden that kite.
All I have said about the Trip is that maybe people should wait judging the kite until people actually have ridden it. That is all. Do you think that is pimping it?


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 Post subject: Re: Naish mid-season catalog reveals no-strut kite!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:58 pm 
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Slappysan wrote:
There are no "specs" up for the new Ride but the previous one's specs listed it having about 2 knots more range than the Park.


hmm, that is surprising to me. I would say it is the other way. Both kites work well though in a wide wind range though. I've been wrong before, so maybe I am..


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 Post subject: Re: Naish mid-season catalog reveals no-strut kite!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:29 am 
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eree wrote:
tautologies wrote:
...The funny thing to me is when posters like Aumm makes statements about me proving the jumping of the kite..I'm not sure how to respond since I have made no claim on its jumping ability..I know nothing about that...but then it turns out they have not really tried the kite either....

so, why the rest of us should prefer your opinion over Aummm's? since you have more posts or because we think you are the brands promoter?
you are refusing to name yourself as brands pimp, so may be you are suffering under the graphomania or logorrhoea. whatever it is you are really succeeding to make any thread mentioning "naish" all about you.
you don't have to wright so many long posts. just show us one good video. but you don't have it...
tautologies wrote:
...I am going to buy the Draft for sure, but I can.....

do you really mean buy it for money or barter it for the naish promotion on the kf? :D

eree,
I agree I have the same opinion :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: Appears to be a PIMP for Naish with a Type "A" disease on the forum :oops:


Last edited by Aummm on Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Naish mid-season catalog reveals no-strut kite!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:23 am 
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tautologies wrote:
eree wrote:
so, why the rest of us should prefer your opinion over Aummm's? since you have more posts or because we think you are the brands promoter?
you are refusing to name yourself as brands pimp, so may be you are suffering under the graphomania or logorrhoea. whatever it is you are really succeeding to make any thread mentioning "naish" all about you.
you don't have to wright so many long posts. just show us one good video. but you don't have it...

The royal we huh? Not bad.
All I have said was Aumms experience with the BRM is not that same as mine...or some of the other guys that have or have not ridden that kite.
All I have said about the Trip is that maybe people should wait judging the kite until people actually have ridden it. That is all. Do you think that is pimping it?
Taut, there you go again, if you don't know the facts you shouldn't show your ignorance.
You seem to get very excited whenever someone questions Naish! Chill out, it's just a brand.
More than likely YOU need to take the 8m out in mid & high range so the added friction
make up for the feeling you lack from other flyers and designers input, seriously :!: :!:

If you enjoy 1 color strapless aspect of kiteboarding who cares, the Strutless is ONLY good for that n nothing else
and ONLY when not in i.e. in mid & high range :thumb: :argue:
So don’t deny the other spectrum of colors in kiteboarding when you don’t have any experience with you admited
and discrediting designers. :blabla:
"Gigi" is right about you're feeling only the waves :clap: because I know couple of people who are doing
only strapless and nothing else and stick with only 1 size & 1 brand and fanatic religious about it
which is not all the wide spectrum of kiteboarding :duh:
We are comparing apples with apples here the same design attribute of the Strutless,
which causes the kite to sit VERY deep in the window, leading to the problems i.e. poor upwind ability,
a tendency getting tea bagged at upper range which causes extremely poor top-end, and limited boosting.
The Srutless 17m brm and 18m BrunAile was tested alongside other light wind kites e.g. 17m Dyno LTD
and both brand was found to be inferior conclusively in a head-to-head comparison.
We had more than 30 hrs time on the 18m BrunAile but on the BRM we had 2.5 HRS testing as I mentioned
and during that testing you would know everything in a mid range about a kite if you're an experienced rider IMHO.
So as the 12m BrunAile compared as above but with the Flysurfer 12m Deluxe,
and also was found to be inferior in all aspect included relaunch & weight in a head-to-head comparison. :lol:
And since you're wondering to know more the BrunAile has a chocolate color that's why it is a "BrownWing"
if I translate to english.

:respect1: & GET REAL :!:


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 Post subject: Re: Naish mid-season catalog reveals no-strut kite!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:03 pm 
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I can completely understand getting pissed at people for judging a kite they have not ridden.

On the other hand I think it strange to discount completely observations by those with undoubtedly more experience with designing along the same concept lines.

A little off topic, but In light of the vast majority of your highly pro naish posts along with the fact that it would seem you buy and have experience with pretty much every model of kite they put out. Are you in fact simply a fan, or is there underlying conflict of interest?

Makes perfect sense for naish to have a paid presence here for damage control and general promotion that has the appearance off non official brand status.

A jaded reader might think you "bought" a BRM kite simply to indirectly endorse the Trip as a vote of confidence to the concept in general. A great move to dispel the pimp accusations too!

I'm not sure what to expect in response, I mean, would you or could you ever cop to it if it were true?


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 Post subject: Re: Naish mid-season catalog reveals no-strut kite!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:31 am 
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Starsky wrote:
I can completely understand getting pissed at people for judging a kite they have not ridden.

On the other hand I think it strange to discount completely observations by those with undoubtedly more experience with designing along the same concept lines.

A little off topic, but In light of the vast majority of your highly naish supportive posts along with the fact that it would seem you buy and have experience with pretty much every model of kite they put out. Are you in fact simply a fan, or is there underlying conflict of interest. Makes perfect sense for naish to have a paid presence here for damage control and general promotion that appears not to be officially part of the brand.

A jaded reader might think you "bought" a BRM kite simply to indirectly endorse the Trip as a vote of confidence to the concept alone.

I guess I'm not exactly expecting an open and honest answer, but you never know. You certainly put the vineer of integrity and sincerity into all your other posts.


Thanks for a sober post.
I am actually not trying to discount anything, and definitely not their credentials. I respect all those guys a lot. On the other hand when I see someone like BRM work for something, it is a little discouraging to see the kites get discounted before they have even tried them. Same for the Trip kite for that matter. You know how small design changes it takes for a kite to be great.

Now it seems like Aumm has tried the 17 BRM, but his experience is contrary to the experience of another guy who quotes a much higher windrange, and it certainly was contrary to my experience on the 8 BRM. I am simply pointing that out....to be called a Naish pimp for that is completely removed from reality. Though I would say I have a history of affinity for Naish stuff.

I think it is a fair question to ask if they have tried the kite, and my intention is not to disrespect anyone. I think I made a tiny poke towards Bill..it was meant as a joke and I write so int he following post.

I really wish more companies would take risks. I think we would see some crazy stuff...that would lead to super cool innovations on the industry. It is more general philosophy of life I guess.

I actually think we should absolutely have a general discussion about the merits of the strutless concept...but I think that would be better served in a separate thread. I am convinced that this will be the next development in the industry. I might be overly excited and all that, but it is my opinion. I can see areas where that type of concept might not be ideal right now, but I think it could get there. Remember how much the SLE concept has developed over the years.

I am not paid by anyone for kiting one way or another..if you'd seen me kite you'd understand why lol. and I am not huge on conspiracy theories either...and I am not making any money off kiting..ask my wife... either way I find is silly that I am supposedly pimping anything in this thread..it is such a reach to say that....I have not tried the trip..but do believe in the concept. I guess time will show.

I actually do not know how things will develop, but I really do like the idea. My limited experience was good, and there are certain qualities of lightness that really appeal to me..especially for waveriding. I have not tried it with a TT. Yet.

I am sure more information will come out as the weeks pass by.


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 Post subject: Re: Naish mid-season catalog reveals no-strut kite!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:31 am 
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Hi Taut:
My previous post was intended to start that discussion. Here it is again. No agendas or brand bashing. Just a straightforward analysis of the salient features notable to strutless designs. Perhaps the merits of struts will also get discussed. :thumb:
"Certain compromises are required to compensate for the inherent lack of structure. Namely, a highly conical geometry with a tight, low-stretch trailing edge to maintain canopy inflation and flatter foil profiles to reduce luffing/bubbling/flapping. Combined, these attributes create a low AOA / sheeting range with sensitive handling and compromised range / VMG."
tautologies wrote:
I actually think we should absolutely have a general discussion about the merits of the strutless concept...


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