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How do you want to be treated?

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Top Down Causation
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Re: How do you want to be treated?

Postby Top Down Causation » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:44 am

I'm new to this forum so I'm curious what the heck this thread is about?

Westozzy
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Re: How do you want to be treated?

Postby Westozzy » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:16 am

chemosavi wrote:One of the funniest things I've ever read on this forum.

" I have a way with words and sometimes in the past I have been a bully without being personal. I'm trying to stop that to. "




Why do you find this funny? Bullying through words and a better ability to debate an argument/point of view can be as damaging as being direct and personal. That is what I am trying to stop. My years on debating teams comes out sometimes and it just seems to make the person attacking me become even more personal and aggressive.

That is the bullying I am talking about. I am guilty as charged and it has been pointed out even by those getting personal...and they are correct on this one.

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tautologies
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Re: How do you want to be treated?

Postby tautologies » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:19 am

Top Down Causation wrote:I'm new to this forum so I'm curious what the heck this thread is about?


I started this thread because of all the shit that was going on in another thread. I don't want to call people out directly because I don't really think they would learn from that, but I think a general tone and how to deal with issues is important, and if most of the other forum users adhere to that I think overall the threads will go further.

I love your username tho...are you into Social theories of network society, ant, information society?
The top down causation framework reminds me a lot about Giddens, Latour etc. or are you are strict physics guy?

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FabsPH
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Re: How do you want to be treated?

Postby FabsPH » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:48 am

Tut.. :thumb:
As I said before.. Enough already...
Hope this all ends.
Pray for wind'n waves...
Discuss gear, have reasonable opinions, leave personal shit at home.
aloha , ..live it !

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Re: How do you want to be treated?

Postby RichardM » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:29 pm

Westozzy wrote:
chemosavi wrote:One of the funniest things I've ever read on this forum.

" I have a way with words and sometimes in the past I have been a bully without being personal. I'm trying to stop that to. "




Why do you find this funny? 1. Bullying through words and a better ability to debate an argument/point of view can be as damaging as being direct and personal. That is what I am trying to stop. My years on debating teams comes out sometimes and 2. it just seems to make the person attacking me become even more personal and aggressive. .

That is the bullying I am talking about. I am guilty as charged and it has been pointed out even by those getting personal...and they are correct on this one.


1. Westozzy, I'm not sure that I understand your point, especially your definition of "bullying". I do not think that using superior skills to promote an opinion is “bullying” UNLESS you use those skills to DELIBERATELY MISLEAD.

If superior skills are not used to mislead, in the cases where an argument is “lost” and the “loser” is as injured as if being directly and personally attacked, this result is unfortunate but the problem lies with “loser’s” reaction and no “bullying” is involved any more than “losing” at any game where skill is an element.

Because most people do not put the time and effort into making each of their statements as bulletproof as possible, especially people who have limited debating and/or professional writing experience, it is frequently possible to misinterpret (sometimes deliberately) a statement in an attempt to use it to discredit an idea. This is obviously especially easy regarding statements from those posters who's primary language is not English.

Admittedly, this makes it much easier for skilful wordsmiths to twist facts, use innuendo, jargon and other techniques to create misleading conclusions (the very BEST write the UNPUBLISHED Appellate and Supreme court decisions). I would say that this qualifies as “bullying”.

However, on this forum, not only does the victim have the option of contradicting the misleading conclusions, but it is likely that many if not most of the other readers will see, or at least suspect, what is being done. In fact, some may even post their own comments attacking the deliberately misleading conclusions.

Therefore, I must take issue with your statement that “Bullying through words and a better ability to debate an argument/point of view can be as damaging as being direct and personal. The cases where this is true are pretty rare in comparison to some of the personal attacks found on this and other forums.

I’ve had posters promise to, and attempt to, destroy my livelihood with defamatory lies, threaten physical violence and vandalism, demean my professionalism, intellect, character, mental stability, writing style, kiting abilities and physical characteristics in response to some of my opinions.

2. Frequently, posts express an opinion (poster #1). If someone has a different opinion (poster #2) and wishes to convince #1 (and other readers) that his (#2) opinion is correct, it seems to me that there are only 2 approaches: First approach: #2 can explain supposed facts which support his position. Second approach: #2 can explain supposed facts which show why #1's opinion is incorrect.

Because it is more difficult for someone to object to their OWN facts, suppositions, assumptions etc., it is often more effective to utilize as many elements of poster #1's opinion as possible in order for #2 to show that his opinion is more correct.

Generally, it seems that the Second approach (undermining the basis of #1's opinion), especially when using #1's own statements, tends to create more hostility than the First approach.

However, with both approaches, hostility increases in direct proportion to the poster’s perception that his ideas have been shown to be without merit. On the plus side, this means that when someone receives a personal attack from someone foaming at the mouth and no on topic argument, they can be pretty sure that the foaming ranter knows he was wrong.

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Re: How do you want to be treated?

Postby RichardM » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:36 pm

FabsPH wrote:Tut.. :thumb:
As I said before.. Enough already...
Hope this all ends.
Pray for wind'n waves...
Discuss gear, have reasonable opinions, leave personal shit at home.
aloha , ..live it !


If you don't like the thread, why waste your time to read it ?

Richard M.
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http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET

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Re: How do you want to be treated?

Postby SupaEZ » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:58 pm

..............................................I want to be treated...to a :beer: ....................................................................

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tautologies
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Re: How do you want to be treated?

Postby tautologies » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:25 pm

SupaEZ wrote:..............................................I want to be treated...to a :beer: ....................................................................


I would buy you a beer. I would probably buy anyone on here a beer. I find discussing kiting with a post session beer is ALWAYS a good idea.

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Re: How do you want to be treated?

Postby Bille » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:31 pm

tautologies wrote:
SupaEZ wrote:..............................................I want to be treated...to a :beer: ....................................................................


I would buy you a beer. I would probably buy anyone on here a beer. I find discussing kiting with a post session beer is ALWAYS a good idea.


Even if i want a Guinness stout with a JD chaser ?

ReaLLy !!??

So maybe i'm Not that weird after-all !! :D

Bille

Westozzy
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Re: How do you want to be treated?

Postby Westozzy » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:06 am

Wow, now that was a decent reply above. You make a valid argument. The increased hostility is probably due to what you described, they sense their argument is indeed weak (paraphrasing).

It is easy to notice someone's vulnerability with argument development and instead of letting it go I tend to 'stick the verbal knife' in further. Which causes even further angst in which the other person loses any grip of the topic at hand and becomes a blatant 'bafoon'.

I call this bullying in some sense of the word. So through my definition I will not be treating others this way anymore. I feel it is wrong and I need to be a better man.


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