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 Post subject: Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:58 pm 
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I mean a big kite for the conditions, I don't mean that you need a 20m at all times :)


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 Post subject: Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:04 pm 
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Location: Ford Lake, Michigan
pop comes from velocity gh=1/2 v^2

When you do sent jump you measure v in respect to wind. This means you can do a sent jump on the beach just by moving the kite around. But for popping you keep the kite fixed at 45 so you measure v with respect to the water here.

Some kites are more efficient in turning that velocity into height, others are more efficient in sent jumps, but you get the height from speed.

to pop 12 feet, 9.8m/s^2 3.7m = 1/2 v^2, v=8.5 m/s =

you have to be going about 20 mph. Which is actually not hard even in 13 knots.

So the key here is build up speed and be efficient about converting the vector to a vertical direction.


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 Post subject: Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:10 pm 
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edt, thanks, mate, really helpful.
How to convert speed into height without losing it? Make the pop really fast?


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 Post subject: Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:14 pm 
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dandaka wrote:
edt, thanks, mate, really helpful.
How to convert speed into height without losing it? Make the pop really fast?


Practice. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:41 pm 
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Practice without knowledge and proper technique sometimes transforms to banging your head to concrete wall :angryfire: So time to ask some advice and understand underlying concepts :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:14 pm 
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true true, bad practice leads to bad habits that are hard to break. I'm not good at explaining pop I mean I know the physics, but when I'm on the water I do it by feel.


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 Post subject: Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:46 pm 
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I believe the physics of the pop comes from converting your momentum to pull opposed to the kite lines to generate as much tension as possible, then release that tension as fast as possible

Here is how I pop.
1) Edge to gain as much speed as possible.
2) Go down wind to slack the lines a little causing the kite to drift backward in the window (this also allows you to unhook) while maintaining as much speed as possible.
3) reset your edge to gain MORE speed as the kite shoots forward in the wind window generating MORE tension (this is often enough tension to pop for many tricks)
4) Before the kite reaches the edge of the window and begins losing pull speed and momentum Do a quick hard carve upwind maintaining as much speed as possible. (this is the spray you see in most good kiteboarding pics) The idea is to convert as much of your momentum to work directly opposed to the pull of the kite, winding your kite lines up like a slingshot with your speed and weight. they don't stretch but they DO hold force. up to 1200lbs of it.
5) Before the kite losses power by reaching the edge of the wind window and before you lose speed and tension release your edge as quick as possible to fire the slingshot with as much force as possible stored in the lines. BOOM!

All things equal a higher kite will give more vertical pop as the pull is more vertical
All things are not equal however. as a lower kite allows you to hold your edge under higher force and store more tension. The kite low pop generally has a dominant horizontal component. Howevert a well executed kite low pop can generate comparable vertical due to the increased tension that is stored. The overall visual effect is it looks way more violent, powered and stylish with comparable height.


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 Post subject: Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:01 pm 
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Johnny said it all. The word that best applies is tension, the way to get that is speed.
How to not lose speed in the carve? Think surfing, skating or snowboarding. Or he'll mt biking . In making turns you can pump your board and build speed. Same deal kiting, I see a lot of carves that are putting on the brakes, look there for the answer to life's little questions


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 Post subject: Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:41 pm 
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Weird than nobody mentions the board?

The shape and flex of a board will also make a difference to the height you can get.


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 Post subject: Re: What force gives you maximum height after pop?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:57 am 
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plummet wrote:
Weird than nobody mentions the board?

The shape and flex of a board will also make a difference to the height you can get.


Wake boarding yes, kite not so much. Pop is just lingo so don't buy too much into it as a proper discription of what is going on.

I think Peter did a good job of over explaining how pop works on a kite. I'll give you my simplified description of it.

Unhook bare off wind, this lets the kite fall back into the window. You edge and the kite surges forward generating lift as it fights to get to the edge of the window. You release your edge as it is still flying forward and generating lift. This is where your pop is coming from. Its not lines, not waves or chop, or the board but the kite.

At the cable pop comes from opposite forces. http://www.wakehq.com/trick/air-tricks-on-the-cable-the-release-1
I'm being lazy with this one but they explain it very well.

The reason I say board matters more for cable is once you leave the water you have no lift. A board with more flex or more rocker will not create as much tension.


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