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 Post subject: Is line flex a varialble in bar pressure?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:30 am 
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Hello:

Being only a few years into kiting and in my late 40s I tend to prefer lighter bar pressure. I am very familiar with all the depowering, knot adjustments on the wing and knot adjustments on the down lines to dial my kite to my preference. I understand many kite lines stretch over time so I tune my bars regularly. Recently, I obtained a slingshot (SS) bar, tuned it - even though it was fine - and used it on my kite; a 9m 2010 waroo (I know these suck but I do like it very much). My original setup has always had very light bar pressure using a liquid force (LF) bar. From what I understand, SS lines tend to stretch less than many on the market, including my LF lines (and they look much heavier). Anyhow I immediately noticed some heavier bar pressure when using the SS. I immediately switched back to my LF bar and it was light again using the same knot settings on the kite. It made me wonder about line quality and flexibility as a variable of bar pressure. If lower quality lines flex sightly more than those that have a greater tensile strength, would this translate to a lighter, spongier, more flexible bar pressure? I can understand a majority of riders preferring the direct feel of the kite in order not to have to look at it in the sky and all, but its not my thing... Any experience or thoughts would be appreciated.


Last edited by NYKiter on Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is line flex a varialble in bar pressure?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:40 am 
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If you have stretchy lines it translates into feeling a bit like a rubber band but the line type doesn't affect bar pressure. It's something else, maybe the bar width, high Y, or the wrong attachments on the kite, when a kite is flying underpowered you will feel a lot less bar pressure.


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 Post subject: Re: Is line flex a varialble in bar pressure?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:35 am 
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Could it be drag that you are feeling?

Are the lines thicker?

I think I read somewhere once that line drag can alter the kites position in the window.....could be a factor?


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 Post subject: Re: Is line flex a varialble in bar pressure?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:44 am 
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never thought of this...but I suspect drag would be a very minor vector.
Certainly when I tune the two bars one is more spongy than the other...


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 Post subject: Re: Is line flex a varialble in bar pressure?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:01 am 
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yes the thin lines can give that spongy feel. could also be line length, long lines are more stretchy


Last edited by edt on Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is line flex a varialble in bar pressure?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:19 am 
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Well, its interesting to discover a new aspect about kiting...I guess I do prefer it...


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 Post subject: Re: Is line flex a varialble in bar pressure?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:14 am 
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Hmm, a rubber-band effect would be a disadvantage in all areas, right up until you sent the kite for a jump and got a big slingshot boost effect. But with stretchy lines it would be difficult to send the kite at all with the spongy steering effect the stretch in the lines would cause. Oh, to have your cake and eat it too... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Is line flex a varialble in bar pressure?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:45 am 
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... line sponge is real and I think the heavier you are the more obvious it becomes.

Have you ever gotten a new set of lines and put them on an older favorite kite, its like magic, the old girl flys great again. It intreged me so much that I did some expereiments swapping back and forth and at the end of my tests and adjustments I concluded the sponge or spring in the lines was more on the older lines. My experiments included new bar, 6 months old bar and 2 year old bar paying attention to keeping the lengths are all equal.

I got the kevlar race lines North experimented in releasing and they made a difference immediately, even the missus noticed the kite flew 'nicer' and in trying to work out why there was a noticeable difference I narrowed it down to the less 'sponge or spring' in the lines. Every little nuance was felt, and ironically I felt the most difference on a race kite. The unfortunate thing, with the less give in the lines, they tend to break too. I experimented by putting the new kevlar lines against new 'normal' lines on the same kite on the same day and every time the kevlar lines felt better. The kite is more reactive and if you have a direct steering kite like the rebel then it becomes really obvious to you.

cheers for now,

Robbie :D


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 Post subject: Re: Is line flex a varialble in bar pressure?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:49 am 
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Yes, I don't think line characteristics have been discussed at length (no pun intended)...if lines get spongy over time is this a bad thing - maybe a few like me would say no as long as it suits their riding style (i.e. older man with tendentious lawn mowing)


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 Post subject: Re: Is line flex a varialble in bar pressure?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:01 am 
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Slingshot bars tend to have harder grip, more like plain rubber than foam.
This is a little harder on the hands, maybe part of what you noticed too...


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