FireWire vanguard ?

[NorCalNomad]

That board does look exactly like the VG. You would think there would be some sort of patten on board design. Tomo is just getting known and he's already getting jacked !

I tend to agree

RRD Cotan.jpg

Sizes 5'2, 5'4, 5'6 & 5'8

Phil
Have Fun & Ride Safe

knew there was a reason I didn't feel right about RRD. Jesus carbon copy

[Onda]

I don´t like copying either, particularly if a relatively small brand or shaper is discriminated.
However, if an idea or design is not properly protected.... why not copy?
Considering today´s ridiculous RRP levels - there should be some budget left for IP protection.

[BWD]

40 years ago or so, one guy invented the "thruster" 3 fin shortboard design.
Think he may have even patented it.

The question is, would the world be better today if nobody else had ever copied the idea and made improvements?

Tomo is a shaper, and shapers come up with shapes by combining, tweaking and refining the ones that come before.
Knowing he would be copied, he chose to license some of his shapes to firewire.
Hopefully he is being compensated decently unlike the shops that sell boards on consignment these days.

I can't really applaud when I see lots of MPH clones, but it doesn't surprise me, and it seems silly to get too upset about it. I know his designs are refined and popular because they perform, but they aren't so completely different from normal surfboards to think they can't be copied, or even improved on, over time.
Sure, a lot of the copies out this year are just trying to get in on "the look," but some will work, others will fall by the wayside, and evolution will go on.
So will fashion.

[mr moon]

Shameless copying! No tact.
I love my 5'4" firewire!
I guess firewire should feel flattered by all the copies out there but this is ridiculous!
Don't be fooled.

I bet FW might be on a legal case there as a designer myself I never felt flattered by copies

Unfortunately like in everything else, most people don't buy boards but they buy brands, especially if they don't know enough!

I have recently discovered FW.. love my 6' Fish Quadra and now got my eyes on one of these

I just wonder if and when we are going to see a timbertek version of the Vanguard??

[jespin4845]

this sounds like the iPhone and samsung debacle, good thing is that it will drive firewire to produce solid products to differentiate itself from other brands, and clearly they are so far, maybe it might make firewire make a 5'8 in kite construction , it only benefits the consumer and i doubt firewire will sell less boards

rode my vanguard in quad fins today using 3d fins, thing is awesome, love how the 3d fins give a little and i can slash harder than stiffer fins

[NorCalNomad]

40 years ago or so, one guy invented the "thruster" 3 fin shortboard design.
Think he may have even patented it.

The question is, would the world be better today if nobody else had ever copied the idea and made improvements?

Tomo is a shaper, and shapers come up with shapes by combining, tweaking and refining the ones that come before.
Knowing he would be copied, he chose to license some of his shapes to firewire.
Hopefully he is being compensated decently unlike the shops that sell boards on consignment these days.

I can't really applaud when I see lots of MPH clones, but it doesn't surprise me, and it seems silly to get too upset about it. I know his designs are refined and popular because they perform, but they aren't so completely different from normal surfboards to think they can't be copied, or even improved on, over time.
Sure, a lot of the copies out this year are just trying to get in on "the look," but some will work, others will fall by the wayside, and evolution will go on.
So will fashion.

You do make some good points. I would say though that most of the kite industry copies are not improving it. Sling shot WAY missed the ball imo by putting on a traditional swallow tail on their copy. There is an interview were Tomo talks about how the swallow tails are one of the slowest and least maneuverable tail designs out there.

[tautologies]

Shameless copying! No tact.
I love my 5'4" firewire!
I guess firewire should feel flattered by all the copies out there but this is ridiculous!
Don't be fooled.

Are you kidding? There is no way to see that from a picture.

What all the other boards that looks more or less similar? How does it relate to a Simmons? ..or that the old mutants are pretty much of the same cloth...

"Tomo took lessons from Simmons when designing the vanguard and in essence, I think it's accurate to say that the Vanguard is a Simmons planing hull built to the standards of todays high performance surfing. "

Claiming someone copies sounds much more black and white than it really is. A copy is a 1:1 same board. I am not sure how you can claim that from a pic.

That said..it is incredibly funny to listen / read the marketing speak on this board. I mean I generally like it, but they have really achieved a new level with this board. Killer stuff!!!

[robg]

Tautologies,

I see what you are saying but it would be more relevant had Tomo come out with the Vanguard in the 1950's right after Simmons introduced his planing hull. Tomo's design is an evolution of Simmons design that came out over 60 years later.

These kite companies were clearly making copies the moment they thought this was the next big thing. Worse is the fact that they are not an improvement on the design. Had they waited until spring of 2074 I would have no problem with it.

[robg]

I am sure most people who are reading this have no idea who Bob Simmons was. He died while surfing in 1954. The fact that he is entering an argument about cutting edge surfboard design in 2014 is amazing.

Do yourself a favor and read a little about him.

http://www.encyclopediaofsurfing.com

[tautologies]

Tautologies,

I see what you are saying but it would be more relevant had Tomo come out with the Vanguard in the 1950's right after Simmons introduced his planing hull. Tomo's design is an evolution of Simmons design that came out over 60 years later.

These kite companies were clearly making copies the moment they thought this was the next big thing. Worse is the fact that they are not an improvement on the design. Had they waited until spring of 2074 I would have no problem with it.

Yeah I get your point, but the Simmons shape has a huge resurgence here the past few years. Even SimSups (I have one), mini-simmons in all forms...boards that are 5'0'' for big riders were selling like hot cakes, which is why I say the design comes out of it.

Look, I am not saying that the new boards aren't HEAVILY inspired...or even copies, what I am saying is that in most cases it is impossible to conclude from just a pic or two. I remember a well known maker of TT came out with a board that looked like a carbon copy of a stretch board, but not until we put it side by side we could really see that it was the same board. Tiny changes to the designs can have a lot to say for performance, and to me it is really hard to judge to what extent something is an improvement or not just from a pic. In most cases that has to be ridden.