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best SUP for super light wind kiting

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migel1976
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Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby migel1976 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:22 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:36 pm
Mossy 757 wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:41 pm

The earliest race boards were essentially stubby windsurf boards, so it should work just not be easy to handle because they're much larger than they need to be for a kite.
Stubby kiteraceboards were extremely low volume boards compared to windsurfboards. The highest volume kiteraceboards (not foil) topped out at the range of the lowest volume windsurfboards. If you took that "Starboard Rio M 195L" and bandsawed it down to 50L, you would be able to edge upon the water start. But even with that much volume reduction, it is difficult to do a waterstart as you slide out (downwind) as soon as your body mostly clears the water. Most kiters can waterstart a TT or surfboard their first time in the water. But most experienced kiters have a difficult time ever waterstarting a higher volume board.

The "start" with a high volume SUP or windsurfboard over 70L usually involves crawling up onto the board with the kite flying, but not assisting getting up. Even if you do manage to have the kite "help" you get onto the board, you risk dragging your harness hook/safety QR across the board. Bottom line....Kite SUP is more difficult due to excess volume, than Kite TT or surfboard in which low volume is an asset and a pleasure.
This board has soft cover EVA and very durable special made for schools.
Maybe you are right just made TT door from piece plywood, just why i wanna try windsurf board, it's anytime can back from start point/

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jakemoore
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Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby jakemoore » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:34 pm

It's hard for me to believe this is 15 years old:

http://www.mit.edu/~robot/zp/zeroprestige.html

Q: How much volume should my board have?
A: Way less than you think. It should be light so it doesn't sink and get lost, but that's it. Strange as it sounds, beginners especially benefit from low volume board. You won't believe me or understand the reasons until you've tried it every other way, so go ahead and repeat our mistakes. Hopefully our documentation will make it quicker for you than for us. It took us years.
I tried a huge windsurfer with a dagger board many years ago. Also a SUP. I still have the SUP and occasionally use it to go for a paddle.

migel1976
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Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby migel1976 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:57 pm

jakemoore
Thank you for link... going to prepare to summer...

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sflinux
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Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby sflinux » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:06 pm

I like to pack a SUP for the super light days. If the winds never hold steady over 5 mph, than I just stand up paddleboard before the winds pick up (as opposed to getting skunked). Sure hydrofoils start early, but I find that a SUP with kite I can start just as early. I see the benefit of the SUP as something floaty that I can paddle back to shore if the winds die (which can happen often in marginal winds).
I started with a longboard before trying a SUP. A longboard is easier as you have a sharper rail for a water start. With a SUP, the water starts are different. The F-one source instructional video offer good tips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL8UT7ygkNk
[point the board downwind, front hand on carry handle, rear hand flying kite, kite at 45. Pull up your hip/knee onto the board. Get to your knees, then stand up. Use your fin to steer upwind. Don't try to use a rail like a traditional board.] In deep water, sometimes looping the kite helps with getting back onto the board. I find kiting with a SUP more fun than stand up paddleboarding on flat water. I have found that riding unhooked makes riding a SUP a lot easier (highly recommend). You want constant pull from the kite, in order to prevent the kite from depowering and front stalling. The source is good for winds less than 10 mph. A traditional kite (unhooked) works fine for steady winds above that.
A SUP is advantageous over a longboard in that you can remain standing on your board during the lulls when the wind is too light to give steady pull (resistance). Winds steady above 10 mph a [gf 0.8] longboard works just fine. With a SUP you don't need much kite power, too much and you will get overpowered and have trouble going upwind. Any size SUP (gf > 1) should work just fine. For fins, I recommend, quads over tris for boards under 9'6". For boards over 10', a twinfin works best (remove center fin and small side bites, and install big twinfins).
The new surf specific hydrofoils paired with a SUP I believe are the future of light wind kitesurfing. :thumb:
p.s. a SUP is also nice to have as a rescue aid tool

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Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby Matteo V » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:32 pm

sflinux wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:06 pm
I like to pack a SUP for the super light days. If the winds never hold steady over 5 mph, than I just stand up paddleboard before the winds pick up (as opposed to getting skunked). Sure hydrofoils start early, but I find that a SUP with kite I can start just as early. I see the benefit of the SUP as something floaty that I can paddle back to shore if the winds die (which can happen often in marginal winds).
I started with a longboard before trying a SUP. A longboard is easier as you have a sharper rail for a water start. With a SUP, the water starts are different. The F-one source instructional video offer good tips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL8UT7ygkNk
[point the board downwind, front hand on carry handle, rear hand flying kite, kite at 45. Pull up your hip/knee onto the board. Get to your knees, then stand up. Use your fin to steer upwind. Don't try to use a rail like a traditional board.] In deep water, sometimes looping the kite helps with getting back onto the board. I find kiting with a SUP more fun than stand up paddleboarding on flat water. I have found that riding unhooked makes riding a SUP a lot easier (highly recommend). You want constant pull from the kite, in order to prevent the kite from depowering and front stalling. The source is good for winds less than 10 mph. A traditional kite (unhooked) works fine for steady winds above that.
A SUP is advantageous over a longboard in that you can remain standing on your board during the lulls when the wind is too light to give steady pull (resistance). Winds steady above 10 mph a [gf 0.8] longboard works just fine. With a SUP you don't need much kite power, too much and you will get overpowered and have trouble going upwind. Any size SUP (gf > 1) should work just fine. For fins, I recommend, quads over tris for boards under 9'6". For boards over 10', a twinfin works best (remove center fin and small side bites, and install big twinfins).
The new surf specific hydrofoils paired with a SUP I believe are the future of light wind kitesurfing. :thumb:
p.s. a SUP is also nice to have as a rescue aid tool

I think you are embellishing the SUP Kiting thing. I and many others just never had a good enough experience on them with a kite. However, there is the chance you are just way more skilled/determined than the rest of us that "absolutely know" SUK (stand up kiting) sucks.

Would you say it is harder to SUK than light wind TT?

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Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby Jamie-NYC » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:05 pm

jakemoore wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:34 pm
It's hard for me to believe this is 15 years old:

http://www.mit.edu/~robot/zp/zeroprestige.html

Q: How much volume should my board have?
A: Way less than you think. It should be light so it doesn't sink and get lost, but that's it. Strange as it sounds, beginners especially benefit from low volume board. You won't believe me or understand the reasons until you've tried it every other way, so go ahead and repeat our mistakes. Hopefully our documentation will make it quicker for you than for us. It took us years.
That site was an inspiration to me when I started out. Much of what is on there has held up through 15 years of changes in the sports rapid growth phase, and then more mature development. Some things, though, are contradicted by developments over those years. For example, race boards and now foil boards (race) have shown the value of volume in a kite board if a foil (fin or hydrofoil) is providing the lift to resist the pull of the kite. It is still confounding to me that light wind riders in flat water don't simply throw down a BIG piece of plywood (much larger than "light wind boards" than brands make). As ZeroP shows, really big is really good. I do it without straps or fins, and it's like trying to kite on a skating rink - fast, but so close to the edge. Sure, no jumping, but lots of skill involved, and lots of fun too.

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sflinux
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Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby sflinux » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:44 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:32 pm
Would you say it is harder to SUK than light wind TT?
The main difference between SUK and light wind TT is you can go upwind much earlier. Deep water start is much harder on a SUK than a TT.
When the winds shut down, I much prefer the paddle back with the volume of a SUP to a TT. If you want more fun than a SUK, than grab a hydrofoil as you will cruise at a much higher velocity and point higher upwind. But hydrofoil is not an option for me at low tide.
I've explored the light wind plywood options (zeroprestige: flying pig), but I find SUK to be more fun. No waiting around for the wind to build, just grab a paddle. Steady 5 k (wind sock at 45 deg) and you are good to go.
http://www.mit.edu/~robot/zp/zeroprestige.html
Out of all the plywood boards that I have made, alaias are the most fun. The most efficient plywood board I made was about 24" wide with a fish tail (not an alaia). But I can go sooner with a SUP, as water starts are the bottle neck with a plywood board.
https://static.squarespace.com/static/5 ... Manual.pdf

kitejumping
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Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby kitejumping » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:33 pm

Anyone ever try one of those boards that functions as a SUP, Windsurf board, foil SUP and windsurf foil board? In the summer my local lake allows SUP and windsurfing but no kiting as the water is always freezing and no swimming is allowed. I could see a SUP foil board being pretty fun with a kite, also assuming you would have straps on the top for your feet and carry a paddle attached to the board in case you have to paddle in.

https://www.naishsails.com/product/hover-120-crossover

https://vimeo.com/217072049

ronnie
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Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby ronnie » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:08 pm

kitejumping wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:33 pm
Anyone ever try one of those boards that functions as a SUP, Windsurf board, foil SUP and windsurf foil board? In the summer my local lake allows SUP and windsurfing but no kiting as the water is always freezing and no swimming is allowed. I could see a SUP foil board being pretty fun with a kite, also assuming you would have straps on the top for your feet and carry a paddle attached to the board in case you have to paddle in.

https://www.naishsails.com/product/hover-120-crossover

https://vimeo.com/217072049
https://www.windsurf.co.uk/wp-content/u ... z-8811.jpg
That is a 106 litre 7' 4" by 30" Hypernut 4in1 windsurf/windsup/windfoil/SUP/Supfoil board .

This is probably the same size of Hypernut being kitefoiled.


At least one of these boards is also a SUP-able board - maybe both?


Kauli Seadi also windsurfs and windfoils this board - and uses a kite with it.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUatyVCj2Ab ... iseadi_253

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Peter_Frank
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Re: best SUP for super light wind kiting

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:55 pm

Yes Ronnie, but this "proves" nothing at all really :roll:

Yes, of course you can ride a huge SUP foil in loads of wind and waves.

But is it fun and balanced and the right tool ?

IMO it is just like back in the days when Robby Naish did forward loops on a huge/long raceboard.

We were all dazzled that he could do it (and we still are), but apart from that, it made no sense, as the wrong tool for the job.

phpBB [video]


8) PF


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