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 Post subject: Lightwind problem with Naish Bolt, 10.5m, model 2012
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:52 pm 
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Have used this kite for about two months and the following happen to me several times: When kiting with low wind and changing the direction, the kite moves only only until the trailing edge points to the water. Then the kite stays in this position for about 1 to 2 seconds and then slowly falls in the water. Haven't managed to do anything to avoid this situation so far.

And when this happens in waves like today, it's even more difficult to relaunch. The kite has good relaunch capabilities in normal wind (but then this problem never happen). But with light wind, the kite moves to the edge of the window and rest "glued" in the water in the optimal start position.

Had a critical situation today because of that. Have rolled up the bar after the wind dropped even more, managed to swim towards the beach, but then get washed by a 3m powerful wave and can be lucky that I and the kite aren't damaged too bad.

I'm kiting since about 7 years and normally nearly never drop the kite, and this situation never happen to me with my previous kite, a JN Prima Donna 11m which I used for more than 4 years.

Have the following questions:

1. Has anyone else the same experience with this (or another kite), and has a hint or a solution to avoid this situation? Is it a trimming problem?

2. The kite has a "light wind relaunch system" with a fifth yellow line. But have never seen anybody that uses Naish Bolts that have installed this light wind relaunch system. Has anyone good experience with that?

Thank you all in advance for any advice!

Franz


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 Post subject: Re: Lightwind problem with Naish Bolt, 10.5m, model 2012
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:46 pm 
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It sounds like you are riding in marginal conditions, which exacerbates the issue, but either way it is probably a trimming issue, but not with the kite - with the bar. I find it almost impossible to backstall an Envy, but I see newbies do it when the wind drops too low and it takes skill to keep it in the air and try to ride.

What I suspect is two things:

1) You are trying to fly the kite straight up to the top of the window after diving it hard, which makes sense in light wind. But something more effective you can try is keeping it more at the side of the window, and doing very fast but shallower power strokes. So, rather than the kite going straight up and down deep in the window, it flies a little more forward more like a sine wave

2) You are keeping the bar sheeted in too much. Some kites need to breathe a little more than others. After diving the kite and turning it (NOT straight up), push the bar out so the air can flow over the trailing edge and let it climb. Doing this in combination with #1 helps it get back into the air more easily

One additional thing you can try is sheeting out all the way, grabbing both the middle lines above your bar and pulling in a few times, like you are trying to hot launch it off the beach (well, this is exactly what you're doing). I've saved my kite from falling into the water in super marginal conditions a few times so that I can keep it looping and get back to the beach without getting it wet 8)


What speed winds are you trying to ride in? Some people consider "light wind" to be 5 knots and other crazy people think it's light wind if they have to ride their HUGE 9m kite.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightwind problem with Naish Bolt, 10.5m, model 2012
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 11:42 pm 
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franzschenk wrote:
Have used this kite for about two months and the following happen to me several times: When kiting with low wind and changing the direction, the kite moves only only until the trailing edge points to the water. Then the kite stays in this position for about 1 to 2 seconds and then slowly falls in the water. Haven't managed to do anything to avoid this situation so far.

And when this happens in waves like today, it's even more difficult to relaunch. The kite has good relaunch capabilities in normal wind (but then this problem never happen). But with light wind, the kite moves to the edge of the window and rest "glued" in the water in the optimal start position.

Had a critical situation today because of that. Have rolled up the bar after the wind dropped even more, managed to swim towards the beach, but then get washed by a 3m powerful wave and can be lucky that I and the kite aren't damaged too bad.

I'm kiting since about 7 years and normally nearly never drop the kite, and this situation never happen to me with my previous kite, a JN Prima Donna 11m which I used for more than 4 years.

Have the following questions:

1. Has anyone else the same experience with this (or another kite), and has a hint or a solution to avoid this situation? Is it a trimming problem?

2. The kite has a "light wind relaunch system" with a fifth yellow line. But have never seen anybody that uses Naish Bolts that have installed this light wind relaunch system. Has anyone good experience with that?

Thank you all in advance for any advice!

Franz


Aloha,

I had that kite. The 9 bolt is one of my all time favorite kites.

First of all, what is the wind like? Strength? I never ever had that happen. I would think the previous poster is onto something. Might be a trimming issue. Great tips from Dyylan..I would like to add is to not let the kite stop. Ie, and you move it across the window try to keep the speed of the kite either by looping or slowing it down across the window.

So what i would suggest is to not let the kite move as much forward in the window. It sounds to me like you are giving too much speed forward, without having the same speed yourself...so the lines go a bit slack. Sheet out a bit as it move across the window...or preferably complete it doing a downloop.

I've used the LWR on the bigger Bolt. Works great. Will get your kite in relaunch ready position before there is wind to actually relaunch. I thought it was a gimmick until I actually used it. You can use any line going from the kite and down. I've had a lot of success attaching it under the floaty. You do not even notice it is on while riding.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightwind problem with Naish Bolt, 10.5m, model 2012
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:32 am 
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Not sure why you guys are talking about flying the kite and back stalling. This guy is complaining about water relaunch.

I have 12m Cult and it has the same issue. I've never tried the LWR system but without it unable to relaunch in anything less than 10 knots.

One suggestion is to pump it up rock solid, which helps avoid tacos when dealing with this situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightwind problem with Naish Bolt, 10.5m, model 2012
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:11 am 
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Slappysan wrote:
Not sure why you guys are talking about flying the kite and back stalling. This guy is complaining about water relaunch.

I have 12m Cult and it has the same issue. I've never tried the LWR system but without it unable to relaunch in anything less than 10 knots.

One suggestion is to pump it up rock solid, which helps avoid tacos when dealing with this situation.


Tacoing is not a problem on the Bolt though any kite should be pumped up.

I read this as a problem where the kite would fall slowly. If it is a relaunch issue. In light wind Pull front lines a bit and then the back line. If you can pull the opposite front line, it will help manouver the kite better.

In lightwind the LWR is great.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightwind problem with Naish Bolt, 10.5m, model 2012
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:35 am 
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tautologies wrote:
Slappysan wrote:
Not sure why you guys are talking about flying the kite and back stalling. This guy is complaining about water relaunch.

I have 12m Cult and it has the same issue. I've never tried the LWR system but without it unable to relaunch in anything less than 10 knots.

One suggestion is to pump it up rock solid, which helps avoid tacos when dealing with this situation.


Tacoing is not a problem on the Bolt though any kite should be pumped up.

I read this as a problem where the kite would fall slowly. If it is a relaunch issue. In light wind Pull front lines a bit and then the back line. If you can pull the opposite front line, it will help manouver the kite better.

In lightwind the LWR is great.


I tested one because I heard it was a good wave kite. It was extremely disappointing... Tacoed on me every time I dived it into the power zone. I thought it was a pumping issue but I could not have gone any higher without blowing up the leading edge. The power delivery was either way over or nothing at all. Because i'd pumped it so hard it bounced off the water...flipped over and shot back into the sky in the middle of the powerzone. I found it odd for a supposedly user friendly kite. The Park is more progressive all round in my opinion. My issues with the Bolt might have been due to the way it was set up but it was a demo so I started with standard and then worked through all the variants with the same or similar effect. It might also be because I'm about 105 kg so heavier than others in this thread.... I also know people who love their Bolts and don't have the same issues I did. But...for me it felt like the scariest, most unstable, kite I'd ever flown. I ended up buying Rebels btw.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightwind problem with Naish Bolt, 10.5m, model 2012
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:05 am 
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balugh wrote:

I tested one because I heard it was a good wave kite. It was extremely disappointing... Tacoed on me every time I dived it into the power zone. I thought it was a pumping issue but I could not have gone any higher without blowing up the leading edge. The power delivery was either way over or nothing at all. Because i'd pumped it so hard it bounced off the water...flipped over and shot back into the sky in the middle of the powerzone. I found it odd for a supposedly user friendly kite. The Park is more progressive all round in my opinion. My issues with the Bolt might have been due to the way it was set up but it was a demo so I started with standard and then worked through all the variants with the same or similar effect. It might also be because I'm about 105 kg so heavier than others in this thread.... I also know people who love their Bolts and don't have the same issues I did. But...for me it felt like the scariest, most unstable, kite I'd ever flown. I ended up buying Rebels btw.


woa..that sounds like a kite that was set up completely wrong or maybe with the wrong bridle? Was it a proto or something?

I've had the 9 in the weirdest conditions no problem at all. I pump it the same I pump all my kites. Maybe 7 psi or something like that (ping test). It was my preferred kite for learnin tricks because it would not pull like crazy while looping it.

I agree the Park is more all round and the 2013 does fill in the gap left by the bolt, but your experience sounds like there was something wrong with the kite / setup. On the weight..I'm not far from you. I guess it could taco if it was underinflated, and that is exasperated by heavier riders, but I'm not that far off your weight.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightwind problem with Naish Bolt, 10.5m, model 2012
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:11 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:39 pm
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[quote="tautologies]

If it is a relaunch issue. In light wind Pull front lines a bit and then the back line.

[/quote]

I found that if its marginal, that type of pumping can get the kite in the air.

So if the wind is only just too light to get the kite off the water, you can pull alternately on the upper front line and back line. The front line tilts the kite forward, the back line tilts it back. I found that if you alternate between pumping with the front line and the back line in a combination that keeps the kite tilted back by about 10 degrees, that worked for pumping it up off the water until it got high enough to not need pumping.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightwind problem with Naish Bolt, 10.5m, model 2012
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:23 am 
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ronnie wrote:

I found that if its marginal, that type of pumping can get the kite in the air.

So if the wind is only just too light to get the kite off the water, you can pull alternately on the upper front line and back line. The front line tilts the kite forward, the back line tilts it back. I found that if you alternate between pumping with the front line and the back line in a combination that keeps the kite tilted back by about 10 degrees, that worked for pumping it up off the water until it got high enough to not need pumping.



haha sounds like you have been floating around in ultralight winds with your raceboard too :-)

Once it was so light the kite floated towards me in the water, before it kind of came back.

The pumping does work for sure..the easier way is the LWR. You can help with the little tug on the front there too...


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 Post subject: Re: Lightwind problem with Naish Bolt, 10.5m, model 2012
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:52 am
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Location: Norfolk, UK
tautologies wrote:
balugh wrote:

I tested one because I heard it was a good wave kite. It was extremely disappointing... Tacoed on me every time I dived it into the power zone. I thought it was a pumping issue but I could not have gone any higher without blowing up the leading edge. The power delivery was either way over or nothing at all. Because i'd pumped it so hard it bounced off the water...flipped over and shot back into the sky in the middle of the powerzone. I found it odd for a supposedly user friendly kite. The Park is more progressive all round in my opinion. My issues with the Bolt might have been due to the way it was set up but it was a demo so I started with standard and then worked through all the variants with the same or similar effect. It might also be because I'm about 105 kg so heavier than others in this thread.... I also know people who love their Bolts and don't have the same issues I did. But...for me it felt like the scariest, most unstable, kite I'd ever flown. I ended up buying Rebels btw.


woa..that sounds like a kite that was set up completely wrong or maybe with the wrong bridle? Was it a proto or something?

I've had the 9 in the weirdest conditions no problem at all. I pump it the same I pump all my kites. Maybe 7 psi or something like that (ping test). It was my preferred kite for learnin tricks because it would not pull like crazy while looping it.

I agree the Park is more all round and the 2013 does fill in the gap left by the bolt, but your experience sounds like there was something wrong with the kite / setup. On the weight..I'm not far from you. I guess it could taco if it was underinflated, and that is exasperated by heavier riders, but I'm not that far off your weight.


I was told it was stock (I've tested a couple of protos) so was surprised...to say the least...but I'll shut up now...as this thread is about relaunching it in light winds. My one observation on that is that the irregular shape is good for breaking the 'water tension' seal but it's not a lightweight kite...so fliers need to get the kite moving to get it in the air and keep it there. Even for a lightweight rider I think there are a lot of better light wind kites around such as the Ozone Edge though.


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