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 Post subject: 5th line or 4lines with bridle?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Hi,

I've got some issues to tune my 5th line 2009 naish bar with a new 2013 naish torch kite.
The 5th line bar is quite used so I'm thinking that instead of messing around with it I might get the new bridled universal '4 line' bar.

Some questions:
1 - Is the 5th line bar safer? (I would guess so as the bridled bar has the release line on the rear attachement point, potentially this could end up in a dead man loop? or I'm thinking wrong here?)
2 - Performancewise, which one is best? (low wind, pressure on the 5th opens up kite more?)
3 - Relaunch on water / snow

best regards /J


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 Post subject: Re: 5th line or 4lines with bridle?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:08 pm 
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1. Both have pros and cons, 5th line is a dedicated safety line but can also get wrapped around the kite.
2. Performance wise 5th line is best for Torch, Torch can not be flown on a 4 line bar.
3. 5th line is better for relaunch, but as mentioned Torch does not fly on 4 lone bar.

Torch has a loaded 5th line that supports the canopy.


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 Post subject: Re: 5th line or 4lines with bridle?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:06 pm 
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Location: The Gorge
Torch is a 5-line kite


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 Post subject: Re: 5th line or 4lines with bridle?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:15 pm 
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Try to trim your bar first.

Torch is a 5-line kite, so 4 line bar will not work for torch.


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 Post subject: Re: 5th line or 4lines with bridle?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:27 am 
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wrogu wrote:
Try to trim your bar first.

Torch is a 5-line kite, so 4 line bar will not work for torch.


realized that now, sorry, was confused by the manual where you have instructions for both the universal and shift bar system. Will go for trimming then.

(btw, last session I had 10 cm slack on the 5th line and even though the kite flies really good :) )


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 Post subject: Re: 5th line or 4lines with bridle?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:50 pm 
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4 line bar will work the torch. the torch does not require 5th line for LE support (like a rebel) it is simply an additional line to act as a leash line and relaunch assist line. (pretty sure on that for new torches (but no personal experience), 100% sure on old ones, lots of personal experience).

it should disable fine onto a single center flying line, like on the universal bar.

universal bar has a single centerline leash system, mounted below the bar, it does not have an outside line leash option, and it never has (i dont think)


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 Post subject: Re: 5th line or 4lines with bridle?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:29 pm 
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i wouldnt ride >12m torch on a 4 line, it loses power and doesnt go upwind very well unless u tension the 5th line. might be ok on a smaller kite (<10m) to run it 4 lines because smaller kites are more rigid dont need the 5th line as much.

if you go 4 line, u have to know 4 line relaunch on a c kite technique it is sometimes tricky swim to the kite yanking opposite lines etc. and if you are a torch guy you kinda want to have all your kites on the same bar, might mean having to buy a new bar when you get a larger torch.


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 Post subject: Re: 5th line or 4lines with bridle?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:52 pm 
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edt wrote:
i wouldnt ride >12m torch on a 4 line, it loses power and doesnt go upwind very well unless u tension the 5th line. might be ok on a smaller kite (<10m) to run it 4 lines because smaller kites are more rigid dont need the 5th line as much.

if you go 4 line, u have to know 4 line relaunch on a c kite technique it is sometimes tricky swim to the kite yanking opposite lines etc. and if you are a torch guy you kinda want to have all your kites on the same bar, might mean having to buy a new bar when you get a larger torch.


I'll def go for the 5th line. Also noticed you loose quite a lot of low end without tension on the 5th. And jumping is more difficult... So how much tension on the 5th? I got 10 cm slack in the line, should I shorten it by 12-13cm or even more?


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 Post subject: Re: 5th line or 4lines with bridle?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:13 am 
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when you are at "fully powered" on the trim strap, there should be only slight tension on the 5th line.

unless you are trying to use 5th line tension to increase light wind performance, in which case a few to maybe up to 10 inches of tension are probably enough. (for a 12)

i am pretty sure the torch isnt really designed for that tho. not that it doesnt effect the kite, sometimes in a useful way, but i would take a careful look at the 5th line attachment point and see how reinforced it looks.


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 Post subject: Re: 5th line or 4lines with bridle?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:59 pm 
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bnthere wrote:
when you are at "fully powered" on the trim strap, there should be only slight tension on the 5th line.

unless you are trying to use 5th line tension to increase light wind performance, in which case a few to maybe up to 10 inches of tension are probably enough. (for a 12)

i am pretty sure the torch isnt really designed for that tho. not that it doesnt effect the kite, sometimes in a useful way, but i would take a careful look at the 5th line attachment point and see how reinforced it looks.


I've shortened the line between each session now and the kite performs better and better. (Attachement points look very solid)

Btw: how much pressure in the new torch 12? In the manual it says max 6.5psi for a 12m to 15m kite but if I inflate to 6.5psi the kite doesn't hold shape while holding it up for launching. I even inflated to 7psi last time and the guy launching me asked if I had inflated enough! This might has to do with the LE beeing much thinner on the new torchs 12 and 14 I guess? Is it the price of faster speed / turning speed or can I inflate even more 7.5-8 psi ? (does the smalle le take more pressure as with the smaller kites, maybe naish didn't update the manual)


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