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 Post subject: Re: What is the real purpose of having a trimmer on a kite b
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:53 pm 
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One up for Thor SF Bay and Alexeyga... :thumb: :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: What is the real purpose of having a trimmer on a kite b
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:15 pm 
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It's just getting better and better:

known kite manufacturer wrote:
For kiters that have not been kiting for a long time. If you decide to ride an XXXX kite and start with the Depower Strap on and leave it their, that means you are flying the kites with the breaks on. It's like driving a FERRARI car with the hand breaks on. If you want to see it's real performance release the breaks. Same thing goes with the XXXX kites or any other kites. I often see riders riding on a kite with the Depower Strap 1/2 or fully pulled down. And once I tell them to release the Depower Strap they are amazed of the performance of the kite. But then some other kiters might be over powered and that is the reason why they have the Depower Strap pulled. So if you are over powered then please change the kite to a smaller kite. Because flying a kite with the DEPOWER STRAP pulled down doesn't give you the incredible performance of the kite.


I'm speechless...


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 Post subject: Re: What is the real purpose of having a trimmer on a kite b
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:39 pm 
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alexeyga wrote:
It's just getting better and better:

known kite manufacturer wrote:
For kiters that have not been kiting for a long time. If you decide to ride an XXXX kite and start with the Depower Strap on and leave it their, that means you are flying the kites with the breaks on. It's like driving a FERRARI car with the hand breaks on. If you want to see it's real performance release the breaks. Same thing goes with the XXXX kites or any other kites. I often see riders riding on a kite with the Depower Strap 1/2 or fully pulled down. And once I tell them to release the Depower Strap they are amazed of the performance of the kite. But then some other kiters might be over powered and that is the reason why they have the Depower Strap pulled. So if you are over powered then please change the kite to a smaller kite. Because flying a kite with the DEPOWER STRAP pulled down doesn't give you the incredible performance of the kite.


I'm speechless...


Why? I think he has a point, too many times I've seen people hanging onto 9s fully depowered doing those gay jumps with no edging involved just pull rhe bar in, not using their legs in any form at all and I rig my 6 bang on the sweet spot fully powered and fly the kite like it is supposed to be flown.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the real purpose of having a trimmer on a kite b
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:01 pm 
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JGTR wrote:
alexeyga wrote:
It's just getting better and better:
I'm speechless...


Why? I think he has a point, too many times I've seen people hanging onto 9s fully depowered doing those gay jumps with no edging involved just pull The bar in, not using their legs in any form at all and I rig my 6 bang on the sweet spot fully powered and fly the kite like it is supposed to be flown.
WORD. :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: What is the real purpose of having a trimmer on a kite b
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:21 pm 
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Sounds like we have a bunch of perfectionists in here. Yeah, there are times when I've been out on the 12m, the wind picks up and I end up using a lot of the trim strap to keep riding. There is no doubt that the 9m would fly better and be more fun at that point. But when you consider how much time it would take to land the 12m, put it away, get the 9m, pump it up, lay out the lines, and relaunch... No thanks, I'll just make the best of it. And that is exactly what the trim strap is for. It's a compromise. In a perfect world I would live next to a huge sandy beach with warm water, consistent wind, and a beautiful bikini clad assistant to pump and rig multiple kites for me and to keep several different boards within easy reach. But that's not my reality. (Maybe it's yours... if you're Richard Branson).


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 Post subject: Re: What is the real purpose of having a trimmer on a kite b
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:26 pm 
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By and large not many of us out there even have a 6. Those of us that do tend to know when and how to use a trim strap. We are also the guys who keep their gear tuned.

I regularly meet people who have a few years under their belt and have never tuned their gear. Also know riders that think their kite is only really into its own once they have to pull some strap. They are almost without exception the riders that I think have poor stance and understanding of edge control to moderate kite power. They are also on 12's when Im on a 10 or smaller.

Now what is missing from this conversation to make it a little less black and white is the ever increasing power and performance band of recent model kites. Used to be that as soon as you pulled some strap your kite was a soggy slow turning piece of poop and you were better off rigging down. Now kites, have such a wide power band that you can easily pull in a little strap to keep the bar in your comfort zone without compromising the kites performance. When you do that you are flying the kite at a different angle of attack than you do with no trim, but many newer kites perform well until you take it to the extreme. I will gladly stay on my bigger kite if Im on my TT with up to a few inches of trim pulled. That would have made my kites of yester year fly like crap.

The other thing no one has mentioned is using the trim strap at a kites ultra low end to stop stalling. I keep my kites tuned to max their power potential. In light conditions that means they can only perform unhooked for a short bit until you need to hook back in and sheet out. For instance, my 10m will power forward through the center of the window unhooked once it reaches 15 knots, below 15 knots and its a lot easier to stall. I will often ride with a touch of trim in the kites bottom end to keep it moving well, release the strap once properly powered and again keep riding and pull in a bit once the wind is up over 20 knots. All in all it is the trim strap that allows me to fully capitalize on the full performance range of my kite.

I have made the mistake of tuning my bar and kite to not stall in winter when we can ride in considerably less wind. Now I tune them for power and unhooked performance relative to water wind range, and often ride around with a bit of trim all winter to ward off light wind stalling.

Those of you who have a 6m will also know the on/off nature of many high wind days where over sheeting and stalling the kite back in the drop out before a 30 knot gust can yank your fillings out. Another really handy time to have and use a trim strap! My pet peeve with the webbing style of strap is that once a bit worn, they will often release to full power every time the lines slack resulting in a big yank. Happens all the time in waves and I hate it with a passion..... and now use cleats only.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the real purpose of having a trimmer on a kite b
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:51 pm 
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Cleat trimmer on my Riot Core 19 m2 never slips...had that kite for 1 year..and ride a lot with it

8kn-10 kn = zero trim......11-13kn=1/3 pulled.....14-16kn=2/3 pulled...17-18kn all pulled in

Even with maximum trimming of the line in the cleat...the kite still steers great...no problem at all

And the bar size is only 52cm !!

I feel still safe maxed out in 18 kn...and can still self-land it in 18 kn by going up the mini 5th...
.....and yanking on top line....kite just falls LE down


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 Post subject: Re: What is the real purpose of having a trimmer on a kite b
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:40 pm 
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SupaEZ wrote:
8kn-10 kn = zero trim......11-13kn=1/3 pulled.....14-16kn=2/3 pulled...17-18kn all pulled in

I feel still safe maxed out in 18 kn...and can still self-land it in 18 kn by going up the mini 5th...
.....and yanking on top line....kite just falls LE down


I think your making an argument for the "no trim" contingent right there! Why the hell would I ever want to be on a 19m kite in anything over 13 knots? Even the fastest of the fast 19m kites of 20 years from now will have the handling of a city bus when compared to any average modern 10m.

Would just like to note, using the justification of "feeling" safe doing anything on anything else that is in your words "Maxed out" will probably not bring you closer to wining whatever debate your in!


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 Post subject: Re: What is the real purpose of having a trimmer on a kite b
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:05 am 
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Thor SFBay wrote:
In a perfect world I would live next to a huge sandy beach with warm water, consistent wind, and a beautiful bikini clad assistant to pump and rig multiple kites for me and to keep several different boards within easy reach. But that's not my reality. (Maybe it's yours... if you're Richard Branson).


I am not Richard Branson but this is my reality......I do inflate my kites myself tho!

About what a trimmer is supposed to be used for, in my case, I use it a little bit to follow the flow of the wind strengh and gusts, but the main purpose is to launch or land in tricky/gusty spots or in case of emergency like getting caught in a storm with extreme winds.

If I have to pull more than 1/4 of the depower starp, it s time for me to change kite so I can enjoy the kite and the wind at his most! I know that you can still ride and steer a kite with the trimmer pulled but this is no fun neither this is the way the kite is supposed to be used!

I do understand tho that a lot of riders don t have the chance to own more than one kite and have to go with what they have and use the trimmer more often to be able to ride within a bigger wind range.

:mosh:


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 Post subject: Re: What is the real purpose of having a trimmer on a kite b
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:21 am 
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Starsky wrote:
By and large not many of us out there even have a 6. Those of us that do tend to know when and how to use a trim strap. We are also the guys who keep their gear tuned.

I regularly meet people who have a few years under their belt and have never tuned their gear. Also know riders that think their kite is only really into its own once they have to pull some strap. They are almost without exception the riders that I think have poor stance and understanding of edge control to moderate kite power. They are also on 12's when Im on a 10 or smaller.

Now what is missing from this conversation to make it a little less black and white is the ever increasing power and performance band of recent model kites. Used to be that as soon as you pulled some strap your kite was a soggy slow turning piece of poop and you were better off rigging down. Now kites, have such a wide power band that you can easily pull in a little strap to keep the bar in your comfort zone without compromising the kites performance. When you do that you are flying the kite at a different angle of attack than you do with no trim, but many newer kites perform well until you take it to the extreme. I will gladly stay on my bigger kite if Im on my TT with up to a few inches of trim pulled. That would have made my kites of yester year fly like crap.

The other thing no one has mentioned is using the trim strap at a kites ultra low end to stop stalling. I keep my kites tuned to max their power potential. In light conditions that means they can only perform unhooked for a short bit until you need to hook back in and sheet out. For instance, my 10m will power forward through the center of the window unhooked once it reaches 15 knots, below 15 knots and its a lot easier to stall. I will often ride with a touch of trim in the kites bottom end to keep it moving well, release the strap once properly powered and again keep riding and pull in a bit once the wind is up over 20 knots. All in all it is the trim strap that allows me to fully capitalize on the full performance range of my kite.

I have made the mistake of tuning my bar and kite to not stall in winter when we can ride in considerably less wind. Now I tune them for power and unhooked performance relative to water wind range, and often ride around with a bit of trim all winter to ward off light wind stalling.

Those of you who have a 6m will also know the on/off nature of many high wind days where over sheeting and stalling the kite back in the drop out before a 30 knot gust can yank your fillings out. Another really handy time to have and use a trim strap! My pet peeve with the webbing style of strap is that once a bit worn, they will often release to full power every time the lines slack resulting in a big yank. Happens all the time in waves and I hate it with a passion..... and now use cleats only.


+1 Good description overall, you expressed it better than I could. I also think the cleat is the best and most straightforward method although it may be counter-intuitive to pull the rope to depower the kite, I think that was one of the reasons for the "less and more" strap design.


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