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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:57 pm 
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The R13 relaunches so well that it is a real advantage in fluky on and off wind.
I loved the Screamer 14M but I was more likely to drop it in the water when the huge lulls come.
The Renegade 13M I can just keep it moving and wait for the wind to come back, very hard to screw up and let it fall.
Gotta have fairly steady wind to fly any of the larger five strut flatter kites...Rebel 14, Screamer 14, Edge 15 etc, all present the same challenges in light fluky wind.
I loved the Screamer 14M at the coast and love any Renegade in the more inconsistent winds.


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:14 pm 
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good point. I also found that for the Screamers to really shine, you need good strong wind. The Renegade is more forgiving and performs well on the lighter side of their range…naturally better in the mid range for all kites, but I did notice that the Screamers like lots of wind to get the full potential out of them….save for the S10 which clearly is just the best kite invented….


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:15 pm 
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KiteCulture wrote:
The R 13 will have more low end grunt than the S14, so initial power output will possibly be the same. I only notice it really during that initial kite dive. The R13 sits deeper in the window so the power is a little straightforward, where the S14 eases into the power a little more. Upwind will be slightly better in the S14 given the more forward position… but only slightly really. I found the pressure on the Renegades to be a little stronger than the Screamers. Even in comparing the S10 or 12 to the R11 or 13, there is a little more pressure. Certainly not enough to tire out your arms over a few hours, but it is there.

For me at 145 lbs, the Infinity is an armful in 8 knots! So I'm on the R13 from 8-9 all the way up to 12-15. My go to quiver is R7, S10, R13.

Just my observations, but it's a feel that you need to find for yourself. Personally, if you have the R13, I'm not sure you'd get more out of owning a S 14 as well. Although, bigger jumps in light winds might be the selling point...



KiteCultuer, Have you tried the R13m 4G on the freestyle setting? I think you will find the bar pressure to be pretty close to the Screamers. I am not considering a change atm I love the Renegades but I always thought the Screamers had a bit more top end and a bit less low end in comparison so I was surprised Dimitri had the Screamer out in lighter winds at a demo...

OldnBroken I agree, the relaunch of the Renegades is certainly one reason we choose them.

Something else to add to this whole Provo trip, this is the first time we flew with our new gear, what a savings on weight... we brought 6 kites with us 5m,7m,9m,11m,13m and Infinity (lots of meters...)
and a board each in two golf bags with harnesses, bars, and a shorty wet suits. Both bags were under 50lbs... last year I struggled to pack 4 kites and keep two bags under 50lbs...


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:28 pm 
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Hey Pete what bag are you using as three kites, board, one bar, harness and pump are the maximum that I can pack in my NSI deceiver bag. Even that I am usually over the 50lbs that I often opt out of bringing the third kite to have a bit of leeway depending on the airline we are flying with! I am thinking about buying the epic transporter bag to decrease the weight of the bag that I use (the NSI bag weighs in at 11lbs dry weight).

James


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:42 pm 
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Thanks Pete.. I haven't tried that setting… my experience was on the 3G Renegade. I usually just pull it out of the bag and rock it. That said, I would never complain about the bar pressure, but it's just a little different than the Screamer. I'll have to try the 4G setting options when I get mine.

you are right for sure about the Screamer and Renegade comparison. The Screamers love the top end and perform reallllllly well in the mid range to the top end. I've been out on that S10 in what I'd ride a 7 meter in. The S10 seems to have a really generous range. I can probably ride it on a twin in 25 kmh to start… on a wide board. But it really comes to life in the 30-40 range. My 7 renegade isn't getting much use now! The Renegades work really well in the low to mid range, but I get pulled downwind easier in the upper range. The range is really increasing this year, so you really could get away with a 2 kite quiver in most cases.

James, I use the Dakine Air wagon for my travel bag…it's good - but HEAVY. Bad is nearly 20 lbs, so I've payed a lot in US travel baggage fees before. I think Epic lists the weight of the Transporter, and I'm sure they can tell you what a full kite weighs if you need.


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:13 pm 
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soul19 wrote:
Hey Pete what bag are you using as three kites, board, one bar, harness and pump are the maximum that I can pack in my NSI deceiver bag. Even that I am usually over the 50lbs that I often opt out of bringing the third kite to have a bit of leeway depending on the airline we are flying with! I am thinking about buying the epic transporter bag to decrease the weight of the bag that I use (the NSI bag weighs in at 11lbs dry weight).

James


I had two Cabrinha golf bags one 160cm and the other 140cm
I put my board with the infinity, 13m and 9m in one bag
and my wife's board 5m,7m,11m into her bag

I had to put both bars in her bag but everything else was distributed evenly.

I'm currently shopping for new bags my 160cm bag is too big now and I borrowed the 140cm bag, I am looking for two light weight 140cm bags, the crazyfly bag is looking like the choice atm.

Cheers
Pete

p.s. I should mention we have Engine harnesses which are smaller and lighter then conventional harnesses. so there is a few pounds there as well


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:25 pm 
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Pete and Brian thanks for the info.... the NSI bag is bullet proof but I like the room and options that the Epic transporter bag offer. Just the aspect that I can connect the two bags together so that I can pack a second bag is great. That way I can pack kites for my wife and still be able to haul both without burdening her with the hassle of carrying it. I travel a lot to the Caribbean's, Mexico and South America that it would be nice to have more kites to increase my days on the water!

James

Pete glad to see that you had a great time on your trip and that the 4G infinity was a positive experience for you! It is definitely a kite that I would like to try as you know the fickle Ontario winds can make time between sessions quite long at times!


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:27 pm 
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my dakine bag also has two units zipped together. I love the option, not the weight. Epic has shaved off very important pounds here.


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:35 pm 
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soul19 wrote:
Pete and Brian thanks for the info.... the NSI bag is bullet proof but I like the room and options that the Epic transporter bag offer. Just the aspect that I can connect the two bags together so that I can pack a second bag is great. That way I can pack kites for my wife and still be able to haul both without burdening her with the hassle of carrying it. I travel a lot to the Caribbean's, Mexico and South America that it would be nice to have more kites to increase my days on the water!

James

Pete glad to see that you had a great time on your trip and that the 4G infinity was a positive experience for you! It is definitely a kite that I would like to try as you know the fickle Ontario winds can make time between sessions quite long at times!


Thanks James, it certainly got me thinking, but I am still leaning toward a sector or hydrofoil instead of a big kite. The R13m will fly and relaunch in 7 knots as well, and with one of those two options for boards I think I will have a bit more fun.... just a bit harder to put on an airplane.......


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 Post subject: Re: EpicKites 4G
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:41 pm 
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Location: Northern Ontario
I also thought about getting a very lightwind specific board or even a skimboard. At 195-200lbs I still like the idea of having a really good LW kite to get me going. My North Evo 14m has some pretty good grunt but I would like to replace that with something that will get me kiting in the 8kt range. The infinity seems like a good place to start and may be a potential purchase in the near future.

James


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